Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:39:25 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: M-G: Reply to Rob on Trotskyism (Was: Insect spray Special)


Gary H. wrote the below on 17.09,

and thanks Gary; I'm certainly *not* going to say
these things are forgeries. Siddharth C. sent *some*
of the same, but your other stuff is valuable to have too.

This doesn't change the correct evaluation of Trotskyism,
though. But more on that only later.

Rolf M.


>OK Rolf and the rest of the list here are some excerpts from "The Testament of
>Lenin". These quotes are taken from the full text as published in a  pamphlet
>by Leon Trotsky, "The Suppressed Testament of Lenin" (1946, Pioneer Publishers,
>Pioneer Pocket Library #2). I also have this text in Lenin's Collected Works
>and in a pamphlet of Lenin's last writings published in Moscow. I frankly chose
>to use this pamphlet's version of the text because it was the easiest to grab
>in my library and NOT for any political reason of translation choice. After the
>selections from that document are two other pieces by Lenin which might help
>clarify this question.
>
>from "The Testament of Lenin":
>
>...
>    "I have in mind stability as a guarantee against a split in the near
>future, and I intend to examine here a series of considerations of a purely
>personal character.
>    "I think the fundamental factor in the matter of stability -- from this
>point of view -- is such members of  the Central Committee as Stalin and
>Trotsky. The relation between them constitutes, in my opinion, a big half of
>the danger of that split, which might be avoided, and the avoidance of which
>might be promoted, in my opinion, by raising the number of members of the
>Central Committee to fifty or one hundred.
>    "Comrade Stalin, having become General Secretary, has concentrated an
>enormous power in his hands; and I am not sure that he always knows how to use
>that power with sufficient caution. On the other hand, Comrade trotsky, as was
>proved by his struggle against the Central Committee in connection with the
>question of the People's Commissariat of Ways and Communications, is
>distinguished not only by his exceptional abilities -- personally, he is, to be
>sure, the most able man in the present Central Committee -- but also by his too
>far-reaching self-confidence and a disposition to be too much attracted by the
>purely administrative side of affairs."
>...
>"... I will only remind you that the October episode of Zinoviev and Kamenev
>was not, of course, accidental, but that it ought as little be used against
>them personally as the non-Bolshevism of Trotsky."
>...
>"... Bukharin is not only the most valuable and biggest theoretician of the
>party, but also may legitimately be considered the favorite of the whole party;
>but his theoretical views can only with the very greatest doubt be regarded as
>fully Marxist, for there is something scholastic in him (he never has learned,
>and I think never has fully understood, the dialectic.:
>...
>    "Postscript: Stalin is too rude, and this fault, entirely supportable in
>relations among us Communists, becomes in supportable in the office of General
>Secretary. Therefore, I propose to the comrades to find a way to remove Stalin
>and appoint it to another man who in all respects differs from Stalin only in
>superiority -- namely, more patient, more loyal, more polite and more attentive
>to comrades, less capricious, etc...."
>
>---
>
>Written at the bottom of a blank piece of paper during the civil war and the
>Military Debates:
>
>"Comrades, knowing the harsh character of comrade Trotsky's orders, I am so
>convinced, of the correctness, expedience and necessity for the good of our
>cause, of orders issued by comrade Trotsky, that i give them my full support.
>                V. Ulianov (Lenin)"
>
>---
>
>>From Lenin's speech at the November 1 (14), 1917 meeting of the Central
>Committee (stenographer's notes): "As for conciliation [with the Mensheviks and
>the Social Revolutionists] I cannot even speak about that seriously. Trotsky
>long ago said that unification is impossible. Trotsky understood this and from
>that time on there has been no better Bolshevik."
>
>
>---
>
>Comrades, you might ask why I spent the time typing this when all Rolf and the
>others of his ilk will do is declare these are false documents or some such or
>come up with ever more advanced apologia for those who deny the revolutionary
>and Bolshevik character of Trotsky's work. I offer them in the interests of
>historical accuracy. AND so that any who are reading this list without the
>prism of a distorted Stalinist, Stalinesque or Maoist reading of history might
>have a chance to honestly analyze the period in question.
>
>Gary
>
>
>Rolf Martens wrote:
>
>> Rob L. wrote the below on 15.09
>>
>> As you've probably seen, I obviously misquoted (from memory)
>> what Lenin wrote about Trotsky in his so-called "testament",
>> a certain letter to the party. Siddharth C. corrected me,
>> saying that it was Bukharin, not Trotsky, about whom Lenin
>> wrote that he'd never understood dialectics. But I do remember
>> (I hope, not all that incorrectly) that there was some rather
>> sharp criticism against Trotsky too in that letter. And I don't
>> remember at all seeing anything like the thing you now say was
>> there about that more recent (from 1917 on) "Bolshevik". I've
>> asked Sid if he would please post that letter to this list, if
>> he has its full text. And I shall try myself if I cannot find
>> it somewhere, if Sid doesn't have it.
>>
>> Apart from that, the flagrant contradictions between Trotskyism,
>> on the one hand, and Marxism, on the other, are obvious on a
>> number of points. Some time later, I shall go into these questions.
>> For now, just take the question of the planned enormous industrial
>> sabotage (by the govt.) here in Sweden, against the Barseb=E4ck
>> nuclear power plant, which produces 6% of all energy here. On that
>> question, where does Trotskyism stand (not just the Malackey)?
>> In favour of criminal bourgeois stoneage-ism, isn't that so?
>> And where does Marxism stand? As the most consistent defender
>> of the very civilization, the consistent defender of the vital
>> interests of the workers.
>>
>> Just one "small" instance!
>>
>> Rolf M.
>>
>> >ROLF, AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER LENIN SAID THAT TROTSKY HAD MADE ERRORS,
>> >BUT THEY WERE NOT INTENTIONAL, AND THAT BY 1917 HE HAD BECOME ONE OF THE
>> >BEST BOLSHEVIKS.  TO BUKARIN AND PERHAPS ZINOVIEV IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY,
>> >HE COMMENTED ON HOW IN 1917 THEIR ERRORS WERE INTENTIONAL.
>> >OH, BY THE WAY, THE CURRENT MILITANT IS A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT, THEY ARE A
>> >POOR REPRESENTATION OF MARXISM.  SOCIALIST APPEAL, IS THE CONTINUATION OF
>> >THE MILITANT TENDENCY, MILITANT I FIRMLY BELIEVE WAS ONE OF THE BEST
>> >ORGANIZATIONS AROUND, IT DEGENERATED - THEY SPLIT, AND THE CURRENT MEMBERS
>> >OF SOCIALIST APPEAL WERE KICKED OUT, BUT THEY HAVE KEPT UP THE STRUGGLE!
>> >I AGREE, THE CURRENT MILITANT IS BOURGEOIS REVISONISM!
>> >
>> >ROB
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Siddharth C. wrote, on 13.09, the below:
>> >>
>> >> And thanks for the correction, Sid - if correct, which
>> >> I presume, since I  just "quoted" something I *thought*
>> >> I remembered, from rather long ago. I do remember there was
>> >> rather sharp criticism against Trotsky too - as well as
>> >> against Stalin, for instance - in that letter of Lenin's.
>> >>
>> >> Do you perhaps have the full text of that letter, Sid?
>> >>
>> >> I'd be grateful if you'd post it to the list!
>> >>
>> >> Rolf M.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Rolf Martens wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> ><snip>
>> >> >
>> >> >> leading position at least, at all.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> No. That much I remember. The text of that "will", a certain letter
>> >> >> to the party, I think it was, is known. About Trotsky it said in the
>> >> >> letter that he "had never understood dialectics" - true, I think.
>> >> >> By no means was he "specifically given" such a duty.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Rolf,
>> >> >
>> >> >Lenin wrote that about Bukharin, not Trotsky. Regards.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>> >
>> >
>>
>>      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>
>
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