Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:02:11 +0000
Subject: Re: M-G: ERROR: (Conf)using term "Stalinism/ist/ists" again


> Date:          Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
> From:          Bruce Burleson <anvil-AT-tiac.net>
> To:            marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> Subject:       Re: M-G: ERROR: (Conf)using term "Stalinism/ist/ists" again
> Reply-to:      marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU

Sorry Bruce, 
I actually thought you were taking the piss in your suicide 
note. Which is why I didnt elaborate. So I'll be patronising instead.
If your serious, then maybe you should take a break from these
terribly ingrown navel gazing over inflated spoons lists and get 
involved in some real world  politics. M-I is much worse than M-G.

As Hugh has just reminded us, they are no substitute for the real world
and obviously a danger to your health. But they are just not capable 
of driving anybody to suicide. Throwing tantrums, fleeing  in a fit, 
obsessing, yes, but suicide no. The sort of political shit that is thrown 
at workers on these lists would get you a thick ear of a bloody nose
in any serious working class organisation.

I thought you were going to check out some ex USEC  groups. You 
could also look into us, and Bob, and Hugh, and Rob for a start. You 
might be surprised how much Trotskyists agree on. For one, we usually 
agree on what Marxism is, what socialism is, which Cuba is not, and what a 
degenerated workers state is which most of us think Cuba still is. Some of 
us think that capitalism has been restored in Russia and China, others not. 
Most of us call one another centrists, but at least we agree that centrism
means talking revolution but not practicing  revolution.  Its just that
everyone's centrist except you and me, and as for you...
Don't give up until youve checked out the lot.
Dave.
> 
> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Dave Bedggood wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Wrong, wrong, wrong, both wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong  and very wrong.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah?  Where am I wrong?  If the level of "unity" on these spoons
> lists is an indicator of what we can expect to be the future of 
> the Left, we are in deep, deep trouble.
> 
> Bruce B.
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > Rob was correct.  Marxism itself these days is fucked up.  No one can
> > > seem to agree on what is socialism, for instance, because everyone
> > > has a different opinion on what "socialism" is.  Cuba is in my opinion
> > > socialist, but the Cliffites argue that it is state capitalism.
> > > 
> > > We are doomed.  We'll never agree on anything.  There is no hope for the
> > > world, if that hope lies in us.  We should all just commit suicide,
> > > and get it over with.
> > > 
> > > Bruce B.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > 
> > 
> > Dave Bedggood
> > 
> > 
> >      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 

Dave Bedggood


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