File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/marxism-general.9709, message 68


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:08:29 +0100
From: Gerry Downing <gerry-AT-gerryd.demon.co.uk>
Subject: M-G: Re: LTT/LTG - Spartacism and Healyism




  ------- Forwarded message follows -------
Dear Gerry,

the following message of yours has not been sent to the list, because it
only includes political comments about Brown's piece.

His piece was a "bordeline case", because it mixed such comments and
some political contents. And we poor moderators can't really edit
messages.
You may want to write to selected subscribers to the list copies of your
"strictly political" messages, which are not really suited for the list. 
To find out who they are, in your next substantive/informational message
to the list -- ie. where you inform that some particular document can be
made available, or you provide a clarifying remark about certain
disputed points of history -- you might add a sentence to that effect. 

I'm sure that people like myself -- who are personally interested in
following that kind of discussion -- will write to you, to be added to
your "ad hoc mailing list".

As you know, we are also planning to make available in the public
section of the archives the Bob Pitt's series, various documents on
"regroupment", the WRP's control commission document and the WRP(WP)'s
reply to that.

I'm currently spell-checking the Gager article, which will also go
there.

So, if there are others materials of interest, you may make an
announcement in the list, and send me a copy. They shall find their way
to the outside world.

Comradely,
Luciano Dondero


> 
> To Comrade Brown of the Generic Trotskyist League:
> 
> All those who depart from the Spartacists do not necessarily liquidate
> themselves. Some, like Yossi and Marie, make a real development. Some
> merely disagree with the latest turn, make no reassessment of why the
> organisation became so degenerate or why they themselves were content to
> accept political outrages (Hail Red Army, smash the Polish working
> class, no forcible re-unification of Ireland - i.e. Unionist/British
> Imperialist veto on Ireland's right to self-determination, no such thing
> as date-rape etc.) and organisational ones (no real effective internal
> democracy,  violence against opponents etc.) for so long.
> 
> Your view that development or this type is ruled out, not practical or
> equals liquidation is repeated in the ludicrous claim that the LTT is
> Healyite. Bob Pitt's historical assessment of Healy and his crimes, as
> well as my own 'WRP Explosion' will soon be available to subscribers.
> They certainly disprove the view we cannot break from the past.
> 
> Comradely  Gerry Downing
> 
> 
> In message <34177CF8.169B67D0-AT-pn.itnet.it>, Luciano Dondero
> <dond001-AT-pn.itnet.it> writes
> >From: "Comrade Screamer" <trotskyist-AT-hotmail.com>
> >To: trotsky-project-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU, Ez1H-AT-aol.com
> >Subject: Re: TP: Web Update 3/ Canadian Trotskyism
> >Content-Type: text/plain
> >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:25:08 PDT
> >
> >I received this from Comrade Brown of the Generic Trotskyist League.
> >Modarator, please send him an email which explains how to s*bscribe
> >to Trotsky-Project.
> >
> >His website:  http://www.angelfire.com/ca/gentrotsky/
> >He publishes e-mail bulletin "Red Cabbage".
> >
> >
> >>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:22:55 -0400 (EDT)
> >>From: Ez1H-AT-aol.com
> >>Message-ID: <970910162225_708375546-AT-emout17.mail.aol.com>
> >>To: trotskyist-AT-hotmail.com
> >>Subject: Re: TP: Web Update 3/ Canadian Trotskyism
> >>
> >>In a message dated 97-09-10 06:03:17 EDT, you write:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>-Leninist-Trotskyist Group (Workers News) Affiliates of the
> >> >>Leninist-Trotskyist Tendency. Only in Toron(t)o.
> >> >
> >> >Split from the Spartacists.
> >>
> >>Screamer -- its true Yossi and Marie emerged from the Spartacists, but
> >here
> >>you imply that the LTT/LTG emerged from the Spartacists and this is not
> >the
> >>case.  I don't know if this was laziness on your part or if you are
> >actually
> >>confused.  You probably are aware that the Y Rad M Hayes faction simply
> >>liquidated themselves into the Workers News tendency which is a
> >Healyite
> >>group and has no historic relation to the Spartacists.   In this sense,
> >they
> >>are not a group like the Nordens, Bt, or even CWG or myself who are
> >claiming
> >>the mantle of Spartacism.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>-Trotskyist League (Spartacist Canada) Toronto,Vancouver and a
> >postbox
> >> >in>Montreal.
> >> >
> >> >Trotskyist League of Canada/Ligue trotskyste du Canada.
> >> >Its paper is "SPARTACIST Canada".  In Montreal, at least 2 or 3
> >> >members exist.
> >> >
> >> >Canadian Spartacists recruited the majority of Edmonton branch of the
> >> >Socialist Challnge in 1989-90.  But I don't know they are still in
> >> >the Spartacists or not.
> >> >
> >>Well if you are listing Canadian groups you might as well mention the
> >IBT
> >>which still has members in Toronto and I assume Montreal.
> >>
> >>The CWG used to have a local in Toronto but 2 people went back to the
> >BT.
> >> The last Mohican (this is an idiomatic phrase referring to a Native
> >American
> >>tribe) comrade Williams recently joined comrade Turner of the Bay Area
> >in
> >>liquidating into the PBCI.  So the PBCI has one member in Toronto.
> >But
> >>dude, make no error here.  Williams is on natural steroids.  He
> >reportedly
> >>does more political work than the BT and Spartacists combined and I
> >believe
> >>it...   Mad dog Williams is a man I still admire... despite
> >programmatic
> >>differences.
> >>
> >>
> >> >And, what is the Guelph Socialists?
> >> >http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/~gsocial/
> >>
> >>Im not sure where the Guelph Socialists emerged from or how they got
> >>together, but we had some discussions with them when I was in the CWG.
> >They
> >>are a mostly student group in the town of Guelph which is a couple
> >hours
> >>north of Toronto.  Comrade Williams was going up there to talk to them
> >back
> >>in 93.  Just as a little tidbit, this caused a fight in the Toronto CWG
> >>because Comrade Nelson who had the only car did want to bother to drive
> >>Comrade Williams.
> >>
> >>I recently read the bulliten Bureacratic Centralism in the IBT and
> >there some
> >>of the other BTers try to invalidate Nelson and Williams's exposure of
> >the
> >>tricks of the IBT secret faction by claiming Nelson was lazy and
> >wouldn't
> >>accept some old assignment because he wanted to play baseball.   Well,
> >this
> >>was just a ploy, because Nelson and Willams document was fairly well on
> >the
> >>mark.  However, Nelson took some of his attitudes into the CWG and made
> >it
> >>very difficult for Williams to contact the Guelph group.
> >>
> >>Eventually Nelson (who was always on the very distant organizational
> >>Menshevik end of the CWG Toronto) and Comrade Mills (who was on the
> >>programmatic right wing) ended up returning to guess who, the IBT who
> >of
> >>course was happy to let them in despite their having supported the CWG
> >>uprising because why?  Well they were ready to crawl....  little
> >shits...  I
> >>mean, dude, that was sordid.  Because they knew what had been done.
> >Shit
> >>man, you know, they could have started their own little group and put
> >up a
> >>web site.   Why crawl back into the Jacuzzi with Logan and live a lie.
> >>
> >>So anyway, the Guelph socialists ended up liquidating into a group
> >called the
> >>New Socialists who have basically Cliffite politics but have broken
> >with
> >>Cliff for some reason.   So they aren't that interesting any more.
> >But we
> >>do have a Red Cabbage reader among the Guelphists.   And I just sent
> >you his
> >>Email...
> >>
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> --
> Gerry Downing

-- 
Gerry Downing


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