File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/marxism-general.9709, message 71


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:06:19 -0400
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: Re: M-G: Re: LTT/LTG - Spartacism and Healyism


Dear ICL, Lists,and subscribers of Cockroach,

As you can see from the below exchanges the so called fake "Trotsky FAQ" 
list as become a center of the hate the Spartacist League and ICL.. Note 
that Brown who sometimes by mistake winds up defending parts of the ICL 
program and is well aware that this list has a conious policy of banning and 
special rules concerning those who have clear sympathies with the politics 
of the ICL in the form of Malecki.

The fake "Trotsky" FAQ is now being used in a viscious campaign by the hate 
Spartacists hate the ICL and linking them with the bizaar politics of the 
Healyites who it was just the ICL and its predessesors who fought on a 
principled programmatic basis for years. Look at the header!

Dondero, now calling himself and "ex-leader" of the ICL and "leading 
comrade", god how i hate these superstar Pabloite creeps, has a long record 
on Internet of using Stalinists organizational methods in creating lists 
with bans , exclusions and special rules devoted to just the Spartacists and 
sometimes the leftovers of Stalinism as he did in his attempt to build the 
so called "Unity" list which was a creation of a list of just about anybody 
in order to liquidate the Transitional Program by discussing it..

That Brown who so far has acted in a principled way arguing about his 
differences
with the ICL has now gone futher and it appears he is begging, despite the 
moderaters bans,exclusion and special rules directed against people who 
sympathize with the ICL on this fake Trotsky FAQ to gain entry shows that 
his principles mean dip shit.

He is prepared to accept these gags in order to be part of this viscious 
crowd who these days are desperately trying to connect the ICL up with the 
Healyites while at the same time creating the illusion that the "Trotsky 
FAQ" is in reality a serious project. The only thing serious about this 
Project is the fact that it is just another attempt by a lot of fake 
Trotskyists to build and illusion on the net that Trotskyism is one big 
happy family despite that all of these groups at one time or another have 
political positions that put them on opposite of the barricades..

These people know that if and when some serious communists walk through the 
door they will blow away the garbage and illusions these people are trying 
to build around the absurd idea that all of these groups represent "Trotskyism".

In fact what we see here is a collection of anti Spartacists who want to use 
this list in order to drive there factional interests against the politics 
of the ICL in a viscious and lying way by linking up the ICL to the 
Healyites at best. They do this and at the same time ban people from taking 
part who would immediately expose there rotten politics.

It is worth noting that what we have is a concentrated attempt by these 
people who by falsification and Stalinists organisational means need to go 
after the ICL. They know deep in their revisionist hearts that it is just 
the ICL and its program that is a deadly threat to their own existence..

And to all others who read this. I request that you demand that the fake 
"Trotsky" FAQ open the doors and stop the bans and exclusion of Spartacists 
sympathizers. I also hope that honest people on the list keep me informed of 
what is going on there by sending copies of all post to my Email address 
<malecki-AT-algonet.se> as some did when I was excluded by this crowd when they 
created the fake "Unity" list. The first principle of Trotskyism is workers 
democracy which these haters of the Spartacists and ICL spit on in their 
evor to drag the ICL through the mud and excluding anybody who would defend 
the ICL and their politics to the best of their ability.

Warm regards
Bob Malecki
http://www.algonet.se/~malecki

        
>
>  ------- Forwarded message follows -------
>Dear Gerry,
>
>the following message of yours has not been sent to the list, because it
>only includes political comments about Brown's piece.
>
>His piece was a "bordeline case", because it mixed such comments and
>some political contents. And we poor moderators can't really edit
>messages.
>You may want to write to selected subscribers to the list copies of your
>"strictly political" messages, which are not really suited for the list. 
>To find out who they are, in your next substantive/informational message
>to the list -- ie. where you inform that some particular document can be
>made available, or you provide a clarifying remark about certain
>disputed points of history -- you might add a sentence to that effect. 
>
>I'm sure that people like myself -- who are personally interested in
>following that kind of discussion -- will write to you, to be added to
>your "ad hoc mailing list".
>
>As you know, we are also planning to make available in the public
>section of the archives the Bob Pitt's series, various documents on
>"regroupment", the WRP's control commission document and the WRP(WP)'s
>reply to that.
>
>I'm currently spell-checking the Gager article, which will also go
>there.
>
>So, if there are others materials of interest, you may make an
>announcement in the list, and send me a copy. They shall find their way
>to the outside world.
>
>Comradely,
>Luciano Dondero
>
>
>> 
>> To Comrade Brown of the Generic Trotskyist League:
>> 
>> All those who depart from the Spartacists do not necessarily liquidate
>> themselves. Some, like Yossi and Marie, make a real development. Some
>> merely disagree with the latest turn, make no reassessment of why the
>> organisation became so degenerate or why they themselves were content to
>> accept political outrages (Hail Red Army, smash the Polish working
>> class, no forcible re-unification of Ireland - i.e. Unionist/British
>> Imperialist veto on Ireland's right to self-determination, no such thing
>> as date-rape etc.) and organisational ones (no real effective internal
>> democracy,  violence against opponents etc.) for so long.
>> 
>> Your view that development or this type is ruled out, not practical or
>> equals liquidation is repeated in the ludicrous claim that the LTT is
>> Healyite. Bob Pitt's historical assessment of Healy and his crimes, as
>> well as my own 'WRP Explosion' will soon be available to subscribers.
>> They certainly disprove the view we cannot break from the past.
>> 
>> Comradely  Gerry Downing
>> 
>> 
>> In message <34177CF8.169B67D0-AT-pn.itnet.it>, Luciano Dondero
>> <dond001-AT-pn.itnet.it> writes
>> >From: "Comrade Screamer" <trotskyist-AT-hotmail.com>
>> >To: trotsky-project-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU, Ez1H-AT-aol.com
>> >Subject: Re: TP: Web Update 3/ Canadian Trotskyism
>> >Content-Type: text/plain
>> >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:25:08 PDT
>> >
>> >I received this from Comrade Brown of the Generic Trotskyist League.
>> >Modarator, please send him an email which explains how to s*bscribe
>> >to Trotsky-Project.
>> >
>> >His website:  http://www.angelfire.com/ca/gentrotsky/
>> >He publishes e-mail bulletin "Red Cabbage".
>> >
>> >
>> >>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:22:55 -0400 (EDT)
>> >>From: Ez1H-AT-aol.com
>> >>Message-ID: <970910162225_708375546-AT-emout17.mail.aol.com>
>> >>To: trotskyist-AT-hotmail.com
>> >>Subject: Re: TP: Web Update 3/ Canadian Trotskyism
>> >>
>> >>In a message dated 97-09-10 06:03:17 EDT, you write:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>-Leninist-Trotskyist Group (Workers News) Affiliates of the
>> >> >>Leninist-Trotskyist Tendency. Only in Toron(t)o.
>> >> >
>> >> >Split from the Spartacists.
>> >>
>> >>Screamer -- its true Yossi and Marie emerged from the Spartacists, but
>> >here
>> >>you imply that the LTT/LTG emerged from the Spartacists and this is not
>> >the
>> >>case.  I don't know if this was laziness on your part or if you are
>> >actually
>> >>confused.  You probably are aware that the Y Rad M Hayes faction simply
>> >>liquidated themselves into the Workers News tendency which is a
>> >Healyite
>> >>group and has no historic relation to the Spartacists.   In this sense,
>> >they
>> >>are not a group like the Nordens, Bt, or even CWG or myself who are
>> >claiming
>> >>the mantle of Spartacism.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>-Trotskyist League (Spartacist Canada) Toronto,Vancouver and a
>> >postbox
>> >> >in>Montreal.
>> >> >
>> >> >Trotskyist League of Canada/Ligue trotskyste du Canada.
>> >> >Its paper is "SPARTACIST Canada".  In Montreal, at least 2 or 3
>> >> >members exist.
>> >> >
>> >> >Canadian Spartacists recruited the majority of Edmonton branch of the
>> >> >Socialist Challnge in 1989-90.  But I don't know they are still in
>> >> >the Spartacists or not.
>> >> >
>> >>Well if you are listing Canadian groups you might as well mention the
>> >IBT
>> >>which still has members in Toronto and I assume Montreal.
>> >>
>> >>The CWG used to have a local in Toronto but 2 people went back to the
>> >BT.
>> >> The last Mohican (this is an idiomatic phrase referring to a Native
>> >American
>> >>tribe) comrade Williams recently joined comrade Turner of the Bay Area
>> >in
>> >>liquidating into the PBCI.  So the PBCI has one member in Toronto.
>> >But
>> >>dude, make no error here.  Williams is on natural steroids.  He
>> >reportedly
>> >>does more political work than the BT and Spartacists combined and I
>> >believe
>> >>it...   Mad dog Williams is a man I still admire... despite
>> >programmatic
>> >>differences.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >And, what is the Guelph Socialists?
>> >> >http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/~gsocial/
>> >>
>> >>Im not sure where the Guelph Socialists emerged from or how they got
>> >>together, but we had some discussions with them when I was in the CWG.
>> >They
>> >>are a mostly student group in the town of Guelph which is a couple
>> >hours
>> >>north of Toronto.  Comrade Williams was going up there to talk to them
>> >back
>> >>in 93.  Just as a little tidbit, this caused a fight in the Toronto CWG
>> >>because Comrade Nelson who had the only car did want to bother to drive
>> >>Comrade Williams.
>> >>
>> >>I recently read the bulliten Bureacratic Centralism in the IBT and
>> >there some
>> >>of the other BTers try to invalidate Nelson and Williams's exposure of
>> >the
>> >>tricks of the IBT secret faction by claiming Nelson was lazy and
>> >wouldn't
>> >>accept some old assignment because he wanted to play baseball.   Well,
>> >this
>> >>was just a ploy, because Nelson and Willams document was fairly well on
>> >the
>> >>mark.  However, Nelson took some of his attitudes into the CWG and made
>> >it
>> >>very difficult for Williams to contact the Guelph group.
>> >>
>> >>Eventually Nelson (who was always on the very distant organizational
>> >>Menshevik end of the CWG Toronto) and Comrade Mills (who was on the
>> >>programmatic right wing) ended up returning to guess who, the IBT who
>> >of
>> >>course was happy to let them in despite their having supported the CWG
>> >>uprising because why?  Well they were ready to crawl....  little
>> >shits...  I
>> >>mean, dude, that was sordid.  Because they knew what had been done.
>> >Shit
>> >>man, you know, they could have started their own little group and put
>> >up a
>> >>web site.   Why crawl back into the Jacuzzi with Logan and live a lie.
>> >>
>> >>So anyway, the Guelph socialists ended up liquidating into a group
>> >called the
>> >>New Socialists who have basically Cliffite politics but have broken
>> >with
>> >>Cliff for some reason.   So they aren't that interesting any more.
>> >But we
>> >>do have a Red Cabbage reader among the Guelphists.   And I just sent
>> >you his
>> >>Email...
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >______________________________________________________
>> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> 
>> --
>> Gerry Downing
>
>-- 
>Gerry Downing
>
>
>     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
-------------------------------------------------------
Check Out My HomePage where you can,

Read or download the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,
Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my Crystalball!

And Now the International Communist League Page!
Just push on the "Spartacist" Button.

Or Get The Latest Issue of,

COCKROACH, a zine for poor and working-class people.

NEW! "RADIO TIME"  In cooperation with Stratfacts, Bob
Malecki will be giving occasional reports to Stratfacts
Radio audiences in the United States. Text for these
reports now on line. 

http://www.algonet.se/~malecki

-------------------------------------------------------
>
>



     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

   

Driftline Main Page

 

Display software: ArchTracker © Malgosia Askanas, 2000-2005