Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 02:55:22 -0500 From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki) Subject: M-G: Re: re-M-INTRO: a question to everyone As the poison from the M-I list is now spreading to the Marx-intro list (see below) I reply to all the lists and Marxist intro in opposing the wrecking operation done on M-I and LP list by certain people be stopped from spreading to other lists. However not by bureaucratic bans and manuvers but counterposing a model which is counterposed to these New left, leftovers, Stalinists and reformists who through slander and organization manuvers want to impose their model... At 03:27 PM 25/10/97 PDT, you wrote: >When I was a girl, in order to make ends meet, my mother took in a >boarder. This man claimed to be a political exile from the United >States. > >It was my chore to empty the bedpan beside his computer and bring him >food. For reasons which I could not understand, he was loathe to leave >his computer. I went about my duties, and he seemed hardly to notice to >me. > >But one day when I went in to bring him his food, he grabbed me by the >arm. >With his other hand, he lifted the dirty undershirt which he always >wore, exposing his fat ugly belly, screaming at me to look into his >crystal ball. > >I had no idea what he was talking about. But he grabbed me by the neck, >and forced my head toward his bloated stomach. It was at that point I >caught sight of his penis, on whose end he had tied a red ribbon. > >At that point, I began to become greatly afraid. With his other hand, he >took hold of a pamphlet that said Transition Program, and began to >scream that I was a stalinist mensheviks. > >Convinced he was going to rape me, I summoned all my strength and broke >free of his grip and ran out of the room screaming. My mother wasnt at >home, so I ran out of the house to the neighbours. > >That is how I was introduced to marxism. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- As the poison from the M-I list is now spreading to Marx-intro which I now send the following to the list. So that all here who are new to Marxism will see that and serious attempt to counterpose these wackos who spread their philth and manuvers all over the place in order to destroy lists open to all who seriously want to discuss problems facing poor and working class people. As Marx-intro is in the hands of a moderater who knows what this is all about and that this person who authored the above philth with others has already hi-jacked one list and destroyed it. I suggest that he read the below carefully as all others. Above and beyond that this letter is a quite clear provacation of no political content what so ever then to slander and destroy any serious discussions I suggest that this person take his slanders elsewhere before this list is destroyed. I will not call for the expulsion of these characters. We do not use the Stalinist school of slander and vile unpolitical garbage to trash people, nor do we advocate bans and exclusions. But stand firmly on the principles of workers democracy. It is people like the above writter who are wreckers and sabateurs of any serious discussion and have proven this on a number of lists where they post or have hi-jacked and bureaucratically purged and banned people. They are the syphlis of the workers movement and as they leave the stage of history are trying everything in their power to stop the development of a revolutionary regroupment of the left after the demise of the Soviet Union and the leap by the Social democracy into the camp of the bougeoisie to administrate capitalist counter revolution.. So to all you new comers I suggest that you read the purposal closely and take part in the creation of a serious alternative to these relics of the past. Become part of the solution by destroying the problem.... Warm regards Zeke As their are numerous people now beginning to talk about "a new list" after the latest events at Jefferson Village and the LP list I am sending out this concrete purposal to a number of people on the net. And too a couple of newsgroups.. I feel that the last two years has shown that a new model must be approached or we are going to fall into the organizational model of the past being brought onto Internet as the norm for discussion lists. I oppose now any attempts to "reform" the present lists, but to counter pose a real political alternative based on Workers Democracy. As this purposal is going out to quite a number of people as a purposal to set up a "working committee" to build a Communist/Internalionalist List both in the Email form, but also Usenet form I suggest that all who are interested include their Email address and make a "Working Committee" mailing list...Naturally all of the know Stalinist and Menshevik hacks who have proven through their actions their support of special "rules" and bureaucratic purges need not apply...As you have shown by your activities that you will not be allowed to have control over any of the buttons if we are sucessfull.. OK! Here is my concrete purposal. That we go out with a public declaration in the near future saying that we want to build a communist/Internationalist discussion list/lists open to all in the workers movement. We do this because the new left left overs, the reformists, and the Stalinists are trying to bring their models of lists, based not on workers democracy, but the wishes and politics of party hacks, friends, and new left groupie existence of the past period. The lists at Jefferson Village like "Marxism-International" and the LP list at labr.party-AT-conf.igc.apc.org,- are good examples of how not to build a list. But also the total fiasco of the so called "unity" list which was nothing other then a fake "Trotskyist" list who wanted to use a Stalinist or reformist list model to build a discussion list for a "family" of "Trotskyists"! The New Left, and Stalinism is dead! The reformist of the LP and Social Democray have leaped into the bougeois camp to administrate capitalism. But these leftovers of the previous period are trying to bring their bureaucratic models and groupie existence onto to Internet as the norm for so called "free discussion" lists. In fact the new left, leftovers, the Stalinists and the reformists, are trying to apply their bankrupt organizational model in real life of the preceding period --of having a meeting putting all kinds of guards and goons around the meeting--and silencing those who dare to speak out in opposition to their rotten and bankrupt politics! This must be stopped by creating a superior list and organizational model! With people who we know from the past who have had a principally correct position on the "Workers Democracy" question.. Just as these organizations are now dead politically or are in the process of jumping on the capitalist counter-revolutionary bandwagon, so is their organizational model dead. What is needed more than ever are a number of discussion lists on Internet with Servers in a number of different countries (for security reasons) which are open to ALL poor and working class people and those claiming to fight in the interests of poor and working class people..The remnants of the Stalinists and Menshevik organizatioal model of the past must be destroyed. Not spied on. Real Communists must counter these traitors with a better organizational form..We must counter the bureaucratic manuvers with a list model that is superior to the prehistoric model they are trying to drag on to the Internet as the "norm".. Against the now new left, leftovers, Stalinist and reformist lists including all attempts to build a fake family of "Trotskyism" lists which are hardly open, hardly democratic, and in fact and organization expression of the left of the past we propose; A working committee to build a Communist/Internationalist list or lists both on a number of servers and a newsgroup on USEnet with the above title. The mailing list or lists and Usenet list will have three fundemental rules. 1. Open to all poor and working class people and organizations in the workers movement who claim to represent their interests. 2. No platform for fascists! No cop/agent baiting without proof! 3. A four post a day limit to the lists to keep the lists affordable to poor and working class people and to prevent the lists of being cluttered up in the flame wars which are inevidible.. Poor and working class people need a list/lists which are open to all and not based on any group of moderaters, who put just their politics, friends, or organization centered around bureaucratic rules and special rules which deny the possibility of free discussions in the workers movement. Enough of these fake left-leftovers,Stalinists and reformist bureaucrats and their historically now dead organizational model. We counter-pose our model to these fakers who have proven that what they fear most is just and open list to all! Towards a real and open Communist/Internationalist list where all poor and working class people, Socialists and Communists trade unionists and other mass organizations are welcome to take part in the discussions, post news or whatever. We must sweep the bankrupt organizational (my turf) thinking of the fake new leftists, Stalinists and reformists onto the dustbin of history..Not by trying to reform them or spy on them but a new Communist/Internationalist list with a team of principled people we know who have power over the buttons and will defend this model against all attempts bt these fakers to hi-jack the list... And sign it with something along the lines of individuals who are gathering around this purposal and its central pillars of rule and thought. I suggest that all people who think this idea is a good one. Then spread it around and we will build a mailing list with all those who are interested to continue to work on this rather rough draft purposal. All those wanting to be on the list send their addresses to me and I will make and "official" mailing list so that all who have something to say can CC it to all thse on the list...I will also send the list to all as it changes from day to day.. Two other things of a more practical nature about this purposal. I think we should be looking for servers in a number of countries as in the future it could be vital if one server is closed down by the state then we have alternatives to switch too.. Finding out what kind of software we need,how much space on a server is needed and stuff like that... Another thing I think should be the goal of creating this list. That is as a political instrument countererposed to the presently bureaucratically run lists. We should set up and information list which clearly state which lists are run by bureaucrats and hacks and which lists we consider open and functional on the principle of workers democracy. For example M-G and thaxis are lists that the Communist/Internationalist list would recommend where as the M-I and LP list have proven that they do not function on the principle of workers democracy. This means using our new list as a combat weapon to counter-pose against those lists that will gag the debate by special rules and bans or exclusions.. Ny Email is "malecki-AT-algonet.se" Warm regards Bob Malecki ------------------------------------------------------- Check Out My HomePage where you can, Read or download the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara, Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my Crystalball! And Now the International Communist League Page! Just push on the "Spartacist" Button. Or Get The Latest Issue of, COCKROACH, a zine for poor and working-class people. NEW! "RADIO TIME" In cooperation with Straitfacts, Bob Malecki will be giving occasional reports to Straitfacts Radio audiences in the United States. Text for these reports now on line. http://www.algonet.se/~malecki ------------------------------------------------------- --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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