File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/marxism-general.9710, message 40


Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:28:28 -0400
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: M-G: COCKROACH! #87 (Afghan, Trots, Mao...)


COCKROACH! #87 (Afghan, Trots, Mao...)

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------------------------------------------------
1. Reply to Joshie...

2. Afghan, Trots, Mao...

3. Dondero and Albania!

4. News from China!

-------------------------------------------------------
Reply to Joshie...

>Hi Bob:
>
>I thought Hugh or Dave might forward this to you, but apparently nobody
>did. I should have CCed it to you when I wrote it. Please read it and
>consider doing what I suggested.
>
>Yoshie
>

>Subject: M-FEM: An Appeal to Reason
>Sender: owner-marxism-feminism-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>To: marxism-feminism-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU

>To fellow lovers of net liberties:
>
>May I suggest that we exercise SELF-DISCIPLINE? Those of us who hate to
>have discipline imposed externally must demonstrate our capacity for
>reasoned discourse.
>
>May I further propose that name-calling not be substituted for a
>well-thought-out critique?
>
>Bob wrote on M-G (forwarded by Dave B.)
>>The "feminist ball busting" was just and excuse if that had not come Carrol
>>would certainly have found another. In fact I will not apologize for using
>>the "feminist ball busting" term because I meant it! It was directed at a
>>women who was painting up Freud as a defender of child rapist and sexual
>>abuse and political coward who sucked up to rich people. That is what I call
>>feminist ball bustbusting and name calling without any political context.
>>And I certainly would never dream of using her terminology to get her
>>thrown >off a list. But certainly will oppose her politically.
>
>There is nothing wrong with arguing against those who criticize Freud for
>suppressing evidence of sexual abuse and for proposing a seduction theory
>instead. However, calling the female critics of Freud "feminist
>balllbusters" cannot be thought of as an instance of legitimate debate. It
>is nothing but sexist name-calling. If Bob desires to come back to the
>list, I say that an apology is in order. His refusal to consider apology or
>self-critique, in my opinion, constitutes his lack of regard for the list
>members.
>
>It is also legitimate to protest against making a fetish of theory and
>cultured language, especially if they are used to exclude those who desire
>to spend time and energy on discussions of everyday political activities
>instead on academic discussions not accessible to many. But this point can
>be made in one short paragraph; no need to waste 20k. Further, it is no
>excuse for lapsing into sexist language.
>
>Lastly, I would like both this list and Marxism to grow and become popular.
>I would like to see this list and Marxism attracting more and more members
>with fresh ideas. Do you also have the same hope for this list and Marxism?
>If so, would you evaluate what you write on your own and see if it is
>conducive to the growth of the list and Marxism?
>
>Yoshie
>
Hi Joshie,

Sending this reply to you and  M-G and naturally M-I so the Stalinist 
moderater Carrol receives a copy.. Would not want him to think that 
Trotskyists do things in secret behind the scenes like the Stalinists. 
Unfortunately not to M-F because the Stalinist moderater Carrol has banned 
me and now as I understand it others like Hugh and Dave.

Hope this gets to the M-F list anyhow..

We have a big problem here. The problem to me is seeing through the smoke to 
get at the fire..In the first place I try to draw a class line rather then a 
sex line. Thus 
despite all the rhetoric and style one has to see not only what people are 
saying,but what they do and what they're fighting for.

For example today in Sweden we have and enormous attack on the *real* gains 
that women made during the post war economic boom. Much of this stuff, including
the "feminist" trend was paid for in the blood of millions upon millions of 
poor and working class people. 

Those who are the most polite and would never utter a phrase which could be 
considered "sexist" by some are in the foreground in driving through 
"reforms" which are and attempt to erase many of the gains by women.

jobs are being erased leading to mass unemployment

child and health care on its way down

abortion laws under attack

a gigantic attack on sexuality with the aids stuff.

pensions old age and widow under attack.

collective welfare state being dismantled and privatized.

not to mention the rise in fascist provocation's directed against "foreign" 
women.

Many of the above things are being driven through by a parliament and 
political parties that is not only half women but Social Democratic majority 
in a coalition with the bougeis Center Party, of the "new" version that is 
responsible for these disastrous anti-women and anti-worker policies..Not to 
mention that the courts are
in fact defending the growing racist right wing atmosphere with rulings 
almost every other day which strengthens this filth and their campaigns.

I am not only a communist/Internationalist of the "Trotskyist" model but 
also organized in the biggest trade union in Scandinavia called the 
"Communal Workers Union" which organizes the tens and hundreds of thousands 
of mostly women who through the years held up the so called public sector of 
health care,child care,
old age care, firemen,garbagemen, park workers, and quite a few others..

This is real. This is not intellectual jerk off time on internet.This is 
real oppression of women! Everyday I meet women from my union and I told 
them about the great fight on M-F and the hair raising history that seems to 
upset the present human material on the list enough that they are prepared 
to swat Trotskyist "feminist ballbusting"
Mesquitos and swallow Stalinists camel bureaucratic maneuvers in order to 
gag the debate. One of these women's reactions was a classic. She opened her 
locker door where she had a very large picture of a naked man and she said. 
"Boy would I like to break his balls!"

Then we have the M-F list which at present has been taken over by a 
Stalinist moderator who has a history of hating Trotskyists, who uses 
slanders like "provocateur" and has done everything in his power to gag, 
expel and remove Trotskyists from Jefferson Village. Then we have a list 
which is just getting off the ground and with the title M-F has attracted 
hardly any women who like my trade union sisters have the social power to 
really change things YET! who appear to see Malecki as the enemy and Carrol 
their pal by silently accepting this purge. 

The latest round of expelling that horrible Malecki for the "feminist 
ballbreaker" phrase came on top of Carrol's calling me a "provocateur" which 
appears to be perfectly acceptable on M-F whereas "Feminist ballbuster" is a 
horrid feminist no no..

So one has to realize that Stalinists who see "Trotskyists" as provocateurs 
will find any excuse or rule in order to gag and expel them. This has been 
the organizational ABC's of finding organizational solutions to the problems 
that the Stalinists have in answering to Trotskyist politics.

Now Jefferson Village and M-F must decide just what kind of list and which 
women and men are going to be part of the discussions. Is it a little click 
of Stalinist Internet bureaucrats at Jefferson Village that will determine 
the future of the lists
with all kinds of organizational maneuvers and special rules. 

Or are we going to accept and open the doors of these lists to poor and 
working class women who might not be so polished in the formal values and 
niceties of the present crowd who dominate here or are we going to continue 
along the path of letting a privileged group of "leftists" keep this turf 
has their private little park.

This is what I thing the real bottom line is. Naturally everyone has to take 
responsibility for what they write and how it will be taken. And in and open 
and honest debate all must judge there words carefully including Malecki if 
he or she is smart. 

However the only basic rule on M-F or any other list is and open and free 
discussion for all who have the right to use the delete button. No platform 
for fascists. No bureaucratic maneuvers by moderators to silence their 
political opponents. No cop/agent baiting without proof.

I am willing to come back to M-F anytime they open the door. But 
unfortunately the Stalinists have dreamed up some special rules and thrown 
me out and barricaded the door. I have committed NO CRIME. And naturally I 
must take the consequences of my sometime crude language. But until the 
bureaucratic bans are lifted and the special rules instigated by the 
Stalinist moderator are removed then it is impossible to contribute the best 
way one can to the real struggle and discussion facing women today. 
Naturally until then I will have to find other means to take part in this 
struggle. 

By the way it appears that both Dave and Hugh have now been removed from M-F.
What was there horrible crime according to Malgosia and Carrol the Stalinist 
bobsy twins with button power! While they are figuring out their next 
bureaucratic move I am going to a meeting which will discuss the "Kalmar 
model". It is a scheme to re-employ women in the public sector they were 
once fired from but employment means accepting to work at the same job for 
your un-employment check! 

A very slick operation which the Social Democrats in the unions are using to 
pull the eyes over women about it better to be out their in a job for 
unemployment pay then being isolated at home. My line I think will be NEVER 
in your fucking live! Our work is a job not fucking charity and your 
complete inability to really fight in the interests of working class women. 
We want our real jobs back!The whole scheme is shaped for your loyalty with 
the "new" Social Democracy and there dismantling of the welfare states. I 
will probably use the above exact wording but in Swedish. I wonder how many 
feminists who will be appalled by my language and style. My guess it won't 
be to many. Maybe some of the Social Democratic bureaucrats will try to use 
this to dump on Malecki. But being alone here causes problems. If we had and 
eloquent Trotskyist we could use the carrot and the stick method. Malecki 
goes in and screams and makes a lot of noise raising some feelings and 
another comrade taking the softer approach. Thus we could cover a lot of 
territory at this meeting as many others..

Oops I'm almost up in a couple of hundred kb again. Think if I was one of 
those clever people that get it all in to one paragraph! Oh well--that is 
fucking life now isn't it? Besides why bore the list with *real* class 
struggle on a day to day basis when
Jefferson Village is being sucked deeper and deeper into the Stalinist 
school of organizational maneuvers against Communist working class militants..

Warm Regards
Bob Malecki
-------------------------------------------------------
Afghan, Trots, Mao...

>Rob Lyon wrote:  (snip)
>	I don't understand why you don't think the Albania revolution is a
>proletarian revolution.  What do you call it when WORKERS, SOLDIERS, and
>YOUTH stand up for the creation of a socialist society, in direct
>struggle with the ruling class and capital?  The Albania revolution
>should be looked at as inspiration for us all!
>----
In reply to Rob-Luciano D.writes!

>Well, the problem with Albania is that the insurgent people do not 
>"stand up for the creation of a socialist society". The uprising spread from
>town to town not on the basis on any kind of clear-cut political
>orientation, but out of the legitimate anger of people who had been robbed
>of their savings by swindlers in cohorts with the Albanian president Berisha.
>
>I can assure you, Rob, that here in Italy various left-wing groupings have
>been looking with a fine comb at the situation in Albania trying to find out
>any element that would go in the direction of a proletarian revolution. Some
>of the comrades involved speak Albanian (being of Albanian descent) -- there
>has been a sizable community in the South of Italy for several centuries now
>-- so this is not just hearsay.

Hi Luciano-see you have decided to drop back in here and drop a bomb on us. 
The above two paragraphs are very interesting! It says quite a lot believe 
it or not. In fact I think your are dead wrong. In the first place the 
objective factor for socialist revolution have been overripe for quite a 
long time. Try reading the transitional program sometime again soon about 
this. And just because it was the Berisha government wheeling and dealings 
with hazard spell was the spark has really nothing to do with it.

But the problem was and is the subjective factor of a revolutionary party 
with a program and determination to bravely go forth in Albania and turn the 
present situation in to and attempt to seize political power and set up a 
dictatorship of the proletariat. If we had a professional organization of 
Trotskyist revolutionaries the spark that was set off could and probably 
would have turned into a prairie fire!

It is the point that at least Hugh and I have been trying to drive home time 
and time again! And nobody appears to get it. We have the classical 1905 
revolution and no Bolshevik Party. In fact probably even far better then in 
1905 as it appears that not only Soviets developed but almost the entire 
population is armed. But without a Bolshevik Party there can not be a 
successful new Albanian October Revolution!
>
>Unfortunately, so far the situation is really messy. The potential for
>working-class actions exists, but -- and this is a very big but -- the
>working class is not organized, and in the current situation of economic
>collapse is highly unlikely that it will manage to keep any kind of cohesion
>as a class in itself, much less reach the stage of political organizing as a
>class for itself.

Come on Luciano. There is all kinds of great activity going on these past 
weeks. The problem is that the movement has no political leadership to show 
the way forward. It is exactly in times like these that a Bolshevik Party 
with perhaps only a few hundred cadres can quickly take the initiative and 
become a big influence and big party. The organization of a Bolshevik Party 
Internationally organized and steeled is the problem and not the activity of 
the masses. This is putting things upside down!
The real problem is the subjective factor of the party..
>
>If you want to look for inspiration toward the activities of the working
>class, perhaps you would do better to stick to the various strike actions
>(eg. South Korea). While they may be on a lower level than proletarian
>revolution, but at least they are real -- unlike the "Albanian revolution".

The last is also qualified bullshit. In Korea where the proletariat is much 
more organized won't mean dip shit either without the subjective factor of a 
Bolshevik Party. In fact all the strikes in the world can not replace the 
Leninist vanguard party. And being one of the iniators of the fake 
"Trotskyist" unity list who's main fame to claim was to ban any serious 
Trotskyists from taking part in the discussions because fundamentally the 
worst thing you want to hear is the necessity of the subjective factor of a 
Bolshevik Leninist Vanguard. 

>From the very beginning the "unity" list made it quite clear that their idea 
of a party is to build a 9 and 1/2 International where everybody is welcome 
to agree to disagree except any kind of authodox Trotskyists that take the 
fundamentals of both the Leninist and Trotskyist ideas of the deadly 
necessity of building profession revolutionary organizations in a future 
Communist International. You have time and again on the "Unity" list claimed 
that this kind of stuff is "outdated"
and people like Malecki are living in the past.

Once again Albania proves not only the Malecki was right. But that both 
Lenin and especially Trotsky and his Transitional program are right and 
fundamental to building a revolutionary International today. Albania shows 
that the objective situation is over ripe and in fact Albania has a 1905 
revolution on its hands. But on the other hand Albania is much worse of in 
the fact of the history of the last fifty or so years of Stalinism has led 
to the situation that orthodox Trotskyists are facing. The creation of the 
subjective factor a Bolshevik Leninist Party is ten times as hard today 
because many of the so called "Trotskyist" Bolshevik Leninists of the left 
have liquidated the whole fundamental idea of the necessity of building a 
vanguard revolutionary Bolshevik organization. Instead they are trying all 
kinds of flim flam opportunist numbers to find a quick solution. The "unity" 
list which you were responsible for being one of the best examples of how 
opportunist and rotten our fake "Trotskyists" have become in their eivor to 
turn the swamp into a unified whole which at the first time serious class 
struggle begins will explode in their rotten opportunist faces.

Towards the rebirth of the Fourth International

Based on the basic fundamentals of Leninism and Trotskyism.

Warm regards
Bob Malecki

By the way Luciano is the "unity" list still alive and are you still banning 
Trotskyists like Malecki from taking part in the discussions. Are you still 
going on with the "we" are all revolutionary garbage or will Internet be a 
place where serious people can fight for a Bolshevik Leninist alternative 
without all sorts of fake Trotskyist,Stalinists and Mensheviks will use all 
kinds of organizational solutions to stop hard orthodox Trotskyists from 
destroying the oh so friendly and chummy atmosphere of opportunist blowhards 
who like you are trying to blame the Albanian masses for not making a revolution
-------------------------------------------------------
Dondero and Albania!

Once again Dondero is whining about events in Albania. But even Dondero has 
to admit that the Albanians are armed, did build "Soviets" at least in the 
South and raised the demand for "democracy". They also called for the 
Berisha regimes fall..

Then he claims that this has nothing to do with the 1905 revolution in 
Russia. But I would say that 1905 had around the equivalent in demands in 
the slogans "bread,freedom and down with the monarchy". In fact in Russia 
their was less support for these "democratic" demands then was to be found 
in Albania a couple of months ago or perhaps even today.

Then Dondero tries to revise Lenin and the "subjective" role of the 
revolutionary party claiming even the Bolsheviks had problems with 
counter-revolutionary attempts. Meaning that the subjective role is hardly 
vital in Albania.This is Dondero's I told you so afterhand revision of 
Leninism and his own appetite to build a "broad" fake left alternative 
instead of a Leninist combat party. And it also is a revision of any kind of 
contact with revolutionary reality!

Once again I argue that it is not the objective situation that is the 
problem in Albania it is the subjective problem of revolutionary leadership. 
And when he comes to Italy and Italian political parties he sees and is 
convinced that his arguments about the Albanian revolution are correct. 
Because the last thing the Italian left wants is and Albanian revolution! 
The left in Italy buried in popular front politics and anti-imperialist 
fronts would nor could see a revolution coming if they were standing in the 
middle of it. And even to mention a Bolshevik combat party leading the 
vanguard of the proletariat to storm the gates of heaven and seize power 
,build a proletarian dictatorship, is so far from their peaceful popular 
front electoral politics of some bizarre peaceful way to power reflects 
Dondero's and the Italian left's utter contempt of seriously talking about a 
1905 revolution which failed because of the lack of the subjective factor 
never mind October where the subjective factor was in place leading to the 
only successful proletarian revolution this planet has experienced.

He calls this revolution stuff and "Alice in Wonderland" project because it 
is Dondero who has left the path of any kind of understanding of the vital 
necessity of revolutionary Internationalist combat parties along the lines 
of Lenin and Trotsky in order to replace them with his broadie 9 and 1/2 
concept of uniting the left in some sort of swamp which will fall apart at 
the first sign of serious class struggle.

So anybody on this list should not take Dondero's ravings so seriously. He 
is looking for excuses to justify his own Menshevik appetite on the question 
of the subjective factor the party. The latest attempt to drag out Kronstad 
decades after
and whine "See what problems they had" and how impossible everything is was 
nor is the argument of Leninists. Lenin and Trotsky faced with a revolution 
in 1905 and later on 1917 and onwards could and did not whine about 
revolution being impossible in backward countries but rolled up their 
sleeves and took on and lead the revolutions where in 1905 it failed and in 
1917 was victorious.

Dondero's line is Give up now because Lenin and Trotsky were all wrong. I 
suggest that people on this list forget Dondero or even better critisize him 
for his rotten defeatist anti-Leninist politics. And most of all Dondero's 
real live project of building a broad swamp of fake revolutionaries who 
agree to disagree about everything but agree generally about all the 
"mistakes" and "weaknesses" of the real Bolshevik Leninists like Lenin and 
Trotsky. 

That is what is going on here. And it is hardly an Alice in Wonderland saga. 
It is a group of fake leftists on the "Unity" list who have broken with any 
kind of serious attempts to build a revolutionary International based on the 
politics of Lenin and Trotsky. They want to win sensible people to their 
rotten centrist line of a low-level "broadie" swamp and in order to do this 
that have to attack Communists who see the opportunities instead of the 
obstacles of proletarian revolution in Albania. They 
cry is join us you lost souls those horrible Leninists/Trotskyist lefties 
ranting about the possibilities and necessities is countered with counter 
revolutionary bourgeois defeatism! How quaint Dondero. Centrists obviously 
will stoop to anything to get some of the softies on this list. Anybody that 
believes Dondero's bag of tricks is welcomed to him and the unity list who's 
only claim to fame is banning serious Trotskyists from taking part in the 
discussions. So if you connect words and deeds of Dondero his line is 
bourgeois defeatism in Albania connected to sticking knives of criticism in 
the backs of people like Lenin and Trotsky and their "mistakes" and 
"problems". In plain language Dondero hates orthodox Leninists and 
Trotskyists and has been doing all kinds of flim flam numbers and 
organization maneuvers in order to stop us from taking part in the 
discussions on "Unity"..

By the way anybody going to Dondero's "Unity" list if it still exists should 
demand that serious militant Trotskyists be let in to argue politics. But I 
doubt it they even have special rules for certain people. The last thing in 
the world these people want is a serious discussion. 

Warm Regards
Bob Malecki
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
News from China!

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button and then the "Workers Vanguard" Button. That
will get you there!

Chinese CP Plans Liquidation of State Economy

China on the Brink

For Workers Political Revolution to Stop 
Capitalist Restoration!
-------------------------------------------------------
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