Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:55:36 +0100
From: Hugh Rodwell <m-14970-AT-mailbox.swipnet.se>
Subject: M-G: Some basics on Marxism as a world view


Come to think of it, this exchange from Marxism-Intro might interest some
subscribers on Thaxis and General, too...

________________________________________

An interesting post from Sail because of its openness:

>Why am I on the list? Because the class I am taking requires it. So
>why am I taking the class?  A long story and none of you are really
>interested.
>
>I would like to say the class and most of the Marxists submissions
>have been very interesting and educational.  I have enjoyed learning
>about Marx and his writings which have given me new insights into
>Capitalism.  I agree that in capitalism there are many problems that
>need to be corrected and changes made, but I don't agree that
>Socialism is the answer.  From my understanding of Socialism, it has
>absolutely no chance of working, because of peoples attitudes about
>each other, wanting more than there neighbor, willing to rip off
>someone because they think they are being taken advantage of, etc.
>
>After reading many submissions, over the past few weeks, that to me,
>were nothing more than blaming someone else for your own problems,
>saying that capitalism wouldn't allow me to change or do want I want
>to,  I couldn't hold back and Tonesters' E-mail was the one I finally
>answered.
>
>I guess another problem I have with Socialism is that those that
>believe in it seem to think it will solve all the worlds problems.  No
>form of government will solve problems the people in that government
>will solve the problems, whether it be socialism or capitalism.  The
>people and their attitudes are the same regardless of their
>government, so to me, we need to change peoples attitudes and the
>government will take care of itself.

All of this boils down to saying that first you change minds, then the
minds change reality. Or in other words, that thought comes before being.
Or in other words, idealism.

Marx disagreed totally with this, seeing that being precedes thought, and
minds adapt to the reality they confront -- materialism. So first you
change reality, then you change minds. Or in other words materialism rooted
in history, or historical materialism.

But how could he imagine a "you" capable of changing reality, when reality
precedes thought, and minds adapt to reality?? Isn't this paradoxical and
illogical??

Well, it would be if he was a mechanical materialist, but he isn't. You
see, history (as well as being in general) moves through the clash and
resolution of contradictions, opposites collide, and instead of taking each
other out, something new and different from both is produced. This is
dialectics, and Marx's view is known as dialectical materialism.

In human society, there are many different forces at work, many different
groups of people with different interests, all with some relationship to
what's going on and some greater or smaller ability to affect events. In
other words a choice of actions to solve any perceived problems. When it
boils down to it, the processes of our society have thrown up two groups
whose interests are in clear opposition, and into whose two camps most
other positions can be placed -- on the one hand, labour, and on the other,
capital.

The big question is which of these groups' interests are best in sync with
the way in which society actually works and the way in which society can
best help most of humanity. Thanks to Marx's analysis and research, and
work by later Marxists, it is scientifically clear that the answer to both
questions is labour's interests, because only a society run in the
interests of labour, that is cooperatively, on a democratically planned
basis and without exploitation, will be able to feed, clothe and develop
people without crises and social catastrophes such as war, famine or
ecological collapse.

Labour is not running our society, however (and the Stalinist regime in the
workers' states, such as the Soviet Union, did not democratically represent
the interests of workers either nationally or internationally). Capital is.
And one of its main tasks is lying about how society works and what can be
done about it, so as to protect its own ownership interests, which are
fatally threatened by socialism, or the organized defence and promotion of
labour's interests -- a fair and prosperous society is impossible as long
as capital is controlling things.

Sail finishes off:

>The attitude of revolution and killing is only perpetuating a hateful
>attitude and when this is instilled in people it isn't going to
>miraculously disappear after the revolution.  Maybe socialist should
>try and show compassion, and try and help those in need by trying to
>educate them, improve their living conditions, their health and stop
>saying that I'd help but Capitalism makes things the way they are so
>there is no point in trying.  Besides it is easier to bitch than do
>something.  And this is exactly how some of the members of this list
>sound to me when I read their responses.

The killing attitude is capital's. Capitalist regimes were slaughtering one
others' workers in wars and their own workers in inhuman factories and
mines before the Soviet Union came into being, and are still doing it
today. During every day of the Soviet Union's existence, both under Lenin
and Trotsky, and later in a grotesque caricature of a workers' state under
Stalin, the world as a whole was still dominated not by labour's interests
but by capital's interests. The reality of the world that needs changing is
a capitalist reality, not a socialist one.

And if you look at policy proposals, it is always socialist proposals that
are aimed at improving education, living conditions, health, working
conditions and democratic participation in  the running of society.

Perhaps Sail could try and see the reality of the society around him (?)
and then take aim at what's really wrong in it.

Then he'd learn that Marx isn't just interesting but indispensible.

Cheers,

Hugh




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