File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/marxism-general.9711, message 308


Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:40:55 -0500
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: M-G: COCKROACH! #97 (Abortion Rights!) 


COCKROACH! #97 (Abortion Rights!) 

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1. Abortion rights!

2. The tragic case of Vlad!

3. Summing up the State Capitalist debate!

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Abortion Rights!

>Come to think of it, I think this debate shows how we must take each
>country/region as a concrete case. I am now remembering the National
>Security Council plan that was leaked or stolen or whatever. The National
>Security Council had this grand worry that overpopulation was a serious
>problem for Turkey, which it may well be, but the data is not conclusive.
>Anyway, guess where the number of children per family is highest? The
>southeast, the Kurdish areas. This got published in leftist journals, for a
>while, there was a fear, and a real possibility, of widepread semi-forced
>abortions in the "region", as the Kurdish lands have come to be called. It
>never came to be, but the report was damn serious.
>
>Btw, anyone married can get an abortion for almost free (last I knew) in the
>mother-child clinics, though their scope does not extend to all of Turkey.
>Else, it is a cheap procedure in state hospitals, a bit more expensive but
>definitely affordable in private clinics and doctors. Becoming a
>gynecologist requires the highest grades in the medical school exams, any
>doctor who wants to earn serious money wants to become one. Most
>gynecologists performs dozens and dozens and dozens in a day. A doctor
>friend of mine was shocked to learn his gynecologist colleague in his
>hospital was about to by a yacht.
>
>I am now beginning to understand why I always watched the great abortion
>fight in the States in semi-amazement. The cultural, political (and
>economic, there is real money involved) landscape is so different here,
>viewing abortion as a "technical" question can lead to all sorts of
>domination and exploitation of women, whereas it seems to have the opposite
>effect in the USA. 
>
>Zeynep

In a lopsided way at least Zeynep trys to put the abortion question into the 
framework of Hugh's pedogogical approach of sex-money-power and politics.

In the first paragraph she rightfully brings up the question of using birth 
control (abortion) as a political weapon against minorities. Although she 
says that this report was never put into effect. However in India I am quite 
sure Rahul can present us with some fairly interesting horror stories of how 
abortion is used as a political weapon in this context.

However I thing that we should look at this in a longer historical 
perspective. Although the abortion debate has been quite big in many 
countries especially during the late post war historical cycle where without 
a big imperialist war the population 
at least among poor and working class people is kept to acceptabal levels. 
The baby boom and the discussion around abortion as well as how abortion is 
used depends a lot on the economic and political state of a given country or 
continent. 

For example abortion as a discussion in Africa where millions upon millions 
of starched bones and shallow graves from wars and drouts not leaving aside 
the now huge Aids problem this continent is faced with makes the disscussion 
on abortion seem quite absurd.

Another example is China where "culture" makes it acceptable to either abort 
unwanted girl babies because if you only are allowed one child it has to be 
a boy to carry on the line. This is just another form of bizaar religous 
mystisism which has some very far reaching negative effects for at least 
Chinese women to say the least.


But only a few decades ago abortion was hardly the question. In fact being 
good mothers and family's in raising cannon fodder for the next war was the 
key issue.
In fact Stalin's line of being a good mother for the "Socialist fatherland" 
comes to mind. Where in the United States women were basically thrown out of 
the industries as the victorious warring men who still were alive came back 
home.
This will most likely be the case after the next big war also! Unless the 
are a chain of victorious social revolutions.

In her second paragraph Zeynep also takes up the money question albeit in a 
very lopsided way. In fact the money question is also linked to the 
technical question. Thus she admits that state hospital abortions are cheap, 
but I assume risky, thus the thriving private market in abortion clinics for 
those who can pay. And her doctor friends can think about buying a new 
Mercedes or whatever. And historically
in countries where abortion was or is illegal it is and instrument mainly 
directed against poor and working class women. For example here in Sweden 
until abortion was made legal and in the nearest hospital. It was only the 
well off who had money to take the boat over to the then Stalinist led 
Poland and check in for a few days in order to get the abortion. Where as 
poor and working class women were either forced to raise 7 or 8 kids or go 
to the nearest quack with a knitting needle. Naturally this was also before 
the introduction of the P-pill.

Finally I think Zeynep and all others that do not see the good sides in the 
real technical part of all this should thing again. In fact there are both 
very good ways technically to give abortions to women who want them and 
there are technical very bad ways to do this. However I smell a lot of 
morals involved in the attacks on Cox for his technical approach to the 
matter which I think a bit one sided but in a certain sense correct.

The point being the the technical end of all this must be in demanding the 
right to free abortions on demand for women at the nearest hospital 
connected to a high technical quality, but also perhaps instructions on how 
to use other forms of birth control, not to mention a broad sexual education 
program in the schools let say starting with the fifth grade of elememtry 
school! I mean if it is technically possible to put a spaceship on mars and 
sent pictures back. Well then I am quite sure that abortions technically and 
even repeated abortions technically do not have to endanger women's health. 
And naturally it certainly should not be treated as a luxury but elementry 
health care..Sort of like influensa.

And to round it all off in the context of Hugh's pedogogical approach. Women 
can screw as much as they want too without worrying about the prospects of 
unwanted pregnancy. Although this is mainly connected to some rather simple 
other economical and political factors of a modern industrial society both 
in the transitional sense of the dictatorship of the proletariat and a 
future communist society. Because much of this debate on abortion is in fact 
a luxury in many parts of the world where having babies is the best 
insurance policy of both survival and the parents being taken care of in 
there older days..

Of course there is another solution in late capitalist/imperialist society 
both for those who are for abortion and those who are against. One could 
join the Islamic and Christiasn fundementalist revival or become a Chatholic 
nun! Although I think I would reserve the last for Gary on the Irish 
question! Sorry Gary just joking.

Warm Regards
Bob Malecki
--------------------------------------------------------
The tragic case of Vlad!

Vlad's latest tragic presentation on the situation in Russia is quite 
interesting both for its political bankruptcy but also in that he exposes 
some interesting turn of events in Russia but also in the west in regards to 
the present anti-party trend that is fairly wide spread both in youth 
circles but also many layers of the Industrial proletariat.

Taking the last first. The fact of the matter is there is a real anti-party 
trend which he describes well but also capitulates to politically amongst 
numerous layers of the proletariat but also the youth in Russia today. This 
can be well understood after years of Stalinist bureaucratic rule and know 
capitalist counter-revolution represented in the new trends and parties that 
exist in Russia connected to a desperation of the former USSR 
disintergrating, mass layoffs and those who do work can even get paid! Not 
to mention the dismantling of the gains of the October revolution through 
capitalist counter-revolution that is taking place.

In the west we see this trend also both in the youth but also layers of the 
industrial proletariat. Much of this anti party trend has to do with mass 
unemployment, lumpenisation and the fact that many youth under the age of 25 
have never had a real job! 

However this does not change the fundementals either in the west or the east 
that it will be political trends whether anti-party or pro party including 
fascist parties and hopefully revolutionary marxists parties which will 
determine the outcome of the struggle. My guess despite Vlad's worship these 
days of the anti-party trends is that it will be just parties in connection 
to program and tactics which will be decisive in the outcome of the future 
and in who's favor the outcome will be.

Now Vlad tells us of a new trend which sees the "Soviets" of the 1905 
revolution as the guiding light to the future. But he nelglects to use his 
"Marxist" intelligence in order to check up on just why the 1905 revolution 
failed despite the Soviets. The truth being that despite these "Soviets" 
which ultimately are the organisational expression and fighting stance of 
the proletariat in pre-revolutionary situations and revolutionary situations 
it is in reality only and organisational form and unless these Soviets are 
given a revolutionary political, programatical, and tactical stance which 
can take them to victory in smashing the state and building a transitional 
society under the dictatorship of the proletariat then the Soviets albeit 
how democratically organised will not mean dip shit in the long run.

In order to do this one must have a party or political trend that can give 
these Soviets this kind of political expression and trajectory. This is the 
fundemental reason why 1905 revolution failed and any future 1905 
revolutions will fail. Or perhaps Vlad can tell us another way forward ton 
victory in the interests of poor and working class people.

I think that Vlad's new found love for "Soviets" in the 1905 version is in 
fact and attempt by him to liquidate not only the party as the instrument of 
proletarian revolution but also revolution! In fact it is also and easy way 
out rather then facing the fundemental neccessity of regroupment in Russia 
of a Trotskyist party with its programatic and tactical contents and 
naturally our history. Vlad slufs off the fact that this youth organisation 
still has great illusions in Stalin and Stalinism and at best have turned to 
vulgar "Soviet" romantism and the line of mass struggle or being part of it 
is where the real action is. Unfortunately without one bit of revolutionary 
theory, program or tactics so that these "Soviets" might have a chance of 
winning and their example being spread from Portugal to the Ural mountains..

Sorry Vlad that this is the way you want to go because you do not want to 
face the fundemental question of the neccessity of building a Revolutionary 
Marxist trend internationally which can really make a difference. You are 
using the western left and its belly gazing as and excuse to capitulate in 
Russia on all the fundementals that you are well aware of but to cowardly to 
fight for today but sometime in the disatant future at best. Oh how I wish I 
could speak Russian so I could go to this site and start talking to these 
people. 

I am quite sure I would be able to make a lot of political enemies! But also 
the possibility that there is some human material there which we can attract 
to a Revolutionary Marxist perspective. Obviously you will not be doing this 
because your new turn is to worship things as they are as being more 
militant and revolutionary then the politics of the Bolshevik Party, the 
first four congreeses of the third international, the history of the left 
opposition and the founding documents of the FI and what all this means in 
regard to success or failure in the future. 

In fact you are saying here that workers and youth should ignore history and 
the revolutionary lessons that must be learned. Just go out there and 
organise your local Soviet democratically and everything will be just fine! 
It sounds like the hollywood song of World War two "I am singin in the rain" 
which became very popular propaganda as the Japanese occupied the Bataan 
peninsula and Correquidor.


You are at best these days tragically turning to what we once said on 
Albania of "Soviets without electricity!" in your case also a touch of the 
"movement" is everything the goal nothing. And I thought that it was me that 
in ways has a real "workerist" deviation but your new line is pathetic!

And even more tragic is the fact that you are much more intelligent in your 
presentation which unfortunately is a cowardly retreat from any kind of 
political line in order to worship this new group as is with all of its 
Stalinist bagage but even more so in glorifying Soviets of the 1905 model 
which when push comes to shove were defeated because there was no 
revolutionary party.

Well unfortunately you are not alone. In fact you are just the Russian 
expression of the left in crisis after the downfall of Stalinism and the 
leap to the right by the Social Democracy. With your line however you just 
become part of the problem rather then part of the solution.

For the reforging of a Communist International!

Warm regards
Bob Malecki
--------------------------------------------------------
Summing up the State Capitalist debate!

Well, despite the hundreds of Kb involved in the latest round of debate 
between the state caps and Andy the most interesting part of the whole 
debate has been left out!
Dave was into this stuff the other day in regards to the latest round 
between Andy and Hugh. Which by the way Hugh,s latest this morning was just 
great.

Anyhow Dave quite rightly mentioned that what is vital in the whole debate 
over the state capitalist theory is the fundemental political stance that 
their position has put them in historically. At best this position can be 
summed up as a plague on both of your houses which ultimately in regards to 
Revolutionary Marxism is back handed support to imperialism in every 
confrontation that has taken place between imperialism and the deformed and 
degenerated workers state since the beginning of world war two.

As Trotsky put it in the Shactman fight  the state capitalist theory 
fundementally developed in a petty bourgeois click who under the pressur of 
the inpending war and Revolutionary Marxist responsibility of defending the 
gains of October despite the Stalinists liquidated marxist theory in order 
to come up with a line defence of the Soviet Union against imperialism in a 
time of war.

And the post war  clone versions of the state cap theory have straddled the 
fence at best on defensism or blantly wound up on the side of imperialism in 
the confrontations between the deformed and degenerated workers states.

Thia aspect! The concrete political stance of the state cap organisations 
has been hardly discussed at all and is the fundemental organisational, 
programatical and tactical link in the struggle to build a world party of 
Socialist revolution.

The debate that Andy and Hugh are having in a sense is linked to this debate 
but in a mirrored fashion. It will be quite interesting to see what Andy's 
position is going to become out of his stance on this stuff. However Andy 
draws no organisational, programatical and tactical conclusions that the 
state cap position leads too nor has he drwn the conclusions that his 
arguements against the state caps lead to when it comes to class struggle 
and a confrontation between imperialism and the once deformed workers states 
and the degenerated workers states. 

Trotsky and in fact the state caps unlike Andy drew the organisational, 
programatical and tactical conclusions of this debate. And in fact in the 
final analisis put the state caps and the Trotskyists historically on the 
opposite side of the barricades. The Trotskyists with the position of 
"unconditional military defense of the deformed and degenerated workers 
states and the state caps at best a plague on both your houses or a blantant 
support of the imperialists against these states.

So I guess if summing up needs to be done and I think that Zeynep is 
partially right about the debate being almost dried up and a tendency of 
both sides just repeating themselves. I hope that the various components 
Andy, the state caps put the summing up of the debate in its rightful 
organisational, programatical and tactical perspective. You already have my 
version in this letter. 

With the latest round between Hugh and Andy it will be quite interesting to 
see where Andy draws his conclusions in this regard if he dare to draw these 
conclusions at all. I assume the state caps who have been pushing their line 
so hard here on M-I also present a historical and present organisational, 
political and tactical stance to class struggle war and revolution.

Because in the final analisis theory is a guide to action! Which means that 
all this theory has to have its practical implementation in the class 
struggle. When doing this the debate will not only be widened but open up 
the entire debate to whole new perspectives and the ability of poor and 
working class people seeing though all the ideological smoke painted up here 
by the various components.

Hopefully
Bob Malecki
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