From: mim3-AT-mim.org Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:14:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: M-G: Jeff Gerber to MIM on Israel [MIM3 comments: Jeff Gerber had arranged for this file to be sent to MIM before through Nakived. We received it again in January 1998, likely because we criticized Nakived for an Archie Bunker imitation and for reading too much U.$. Nazi lit. Although Jeff Gerber insists that we avoid usual MIM policy and use his real name, we cannot assure readers that he is in fact a Zionist or an anti-capitalist. We can say for certain that in these times this sort of Zionist view is rather rare. What this letter contains is a quick sketch of the history of Zionism and some polemics on where Reds should stand. More MIM comments come at the end after both Gerber and Nakived have spoken.] Dear MIM: This is a repeat of a file I had dictated to N. Here it is again without personal comments not made by myself save for the few at the end that I wanted left in. This is to any interested Marxists and it is from Jeff Gerber. This was prompted by MIM Notes 147. From Jeff Gerber Parts 2 and 3 follow. 1800's the Jews started big time Zionist movements tho this was not the first, the Machabees were the first in revolt against "Greeks" living in Syria or even before that - even when Alexander the Great tried to make it into Greek colonies the Jews rebelled: Machabees! They were also notably SERPENT OF WISDOM venerating Jews. Later on the Roman Empire divided into a Latin and a Greek speaking half and the Romans drove the Jews out after the Bar Kochba war, around early AD times. A giant war. At first the Jews defeated the Romans and set up a Jewish Nation, then the Romans kicked their butts later. They exported and drove out the ENTIRE Jewish population of the nation and sent them as slaves INTO THE DIASPORA. THAT is how the Jews got into Europe. OK? That is how the Jews lost their land, their NATIVE LAND in Israel. That is how Jews bvecame "Wandering Jews with no land of their own, despised by the European Christian nations in which they tried, repeatedly, to settle in. Like the Amerinds driven out by Anglos, the Roman imperialists drove the Jews out. THEN Rome Christianized and made Israel a "christian country," with no Jews there. They also threw out people they called Theurgies which is of historical importance if you realize that these Theurgies, from an Hellenic (preSocratic, Turanian) tradition later became the Guilds (Free Masons). Then came the rise of Islam and Arab armies defeated the xians and Islamized Israel. Byzantium was defeated much later by the shamanist Turanian KUMANS, then the KHANS who turned Moslem: Seljuks, Tamerlane, Ottomans, etc. The Xian crusaders tried to take it back for years. The ONLY Jews that had a nation at the time of the Kumans were the KHAZARS and they were not even Jews -- they were Turanians -- but you can be sure, hundreds of thousands, MILLIONS of real Jews went to the new "Jewish" Nation! THAT is how the Jews ended up in the PALE later on! But back to the past -- the only other Jewish nations were in Yemen and Ethiopia. The Jewish government in Yemen was run by a woman at one time and the Arab Mosmens exterminated them. The Turks took over the Israel area, the Moslem Arabs and and Turks of the time kept fighting over it with the Moslem Egyptians coming in on the Arab side. But the Arabs ended up each switching sides and etc -- but the Turks ended up with TOTAL victory and owning Israel. They owned it for a long time. Then, in the 1860's with the permission of the Turkish Government, Jews started to come BACK into the Israeli area. They didn't just come in. They BOUGHT UP the land and the Turks sold it - even when NO ONE WAS LIVING ON IT, certain Turks and Arabs laid claim to it and had to be PAID BY THESE JEWS. They were PAID and with exorbitant amounts! At that time, most of the land was uninhabited wilderness: deserts, mountains and swamps. The Arabs had even created MORE wilderness by destroying MORE land by cutting down trees and other stupid shit, while the Jews PLANTED trees. You get the picture if you aren't blind. The Jews took up a collection around the world even, to plant trees back in the areas that the Arabs defoliated. The chief tree planting agency was called the Jewish National Fund. The American Mark Twain visited: he is an eye-witness: most was uninhabited and the rest was sparcely habited except for a few big cities like Jerusalem and Acre. As the Jews came in, they created an economic boom. There were JOBS available now where before there were none. The Jews were draining the swamps, irragiting the desert, washing the excess salt out of the soil to make it fit for agriculture and bringing in their European liberal or SOCIALIST ideas: like, 8 hour work day, equality for women, voting rights for all citizens including poor, majority rule or democracy whichever you want to call that, end of feudalism and a whole LOT of what WE would call multicultural and pluralistic ideas like religious freedom and other LEFT WING types of things. Keep in mind, in the 1860's, it would be HARD to find a Jew who was not PRO COMMUNIST ala Marx. I don't think I need to point out the strong Jewish support Lenin had to anyone who isn't retarded or living in a closet. This thing continued up until WWI. The Arabs hated this stuff where a woman could divorce a man, have 1 wife, or women equality or no class system. They HATED it and of course you can GUESS which Arabs LIKED IT and got stirred up to make complaints aginst THEIR OWN ways of life. They also then, only then, started up with this shit about "Jews are going to buy it all up" and they said "should be death penalty for Arabs who sell land to Jews." The Grand Mufti seid it. Yes, but they LOVED selling it to Jews when it was what they considered WASTELAND because they themselves never developed it and/or destroyed it as they cut trees down. Now, with the Jews having fixed it, Islamic Arabs were POURING into the newly developed land, poor people who wanted jobs and LOVED the different system. Prior to the Arabs getting rich on oil money, they were POVERTY STRICKEN. The new Jewish Nation with its economic boom attracted them like flies. Arabs who came to live there from Arabia, Syria and Egypt and other places DID NOT call themselves Palestinians! In those days the word Palestinian MEANT JEW!!! THESE are the facts covered up by the switcheroo in labels. So, Arafat is NOT a Palestinian. In WWI, the Arabs sided with the ENGLISH CHRISTIANS against the Turks and combined English and Arab armies drove the Turks out. England became the OWNER of Israel/Palestine! I.e., imperialists fighting their own war, declared they owned land that these Jews had long since BOUGHT AND DEVELOPED! Now, the English played both sides against each other, Arab against Jew. Here is why: England was not just fighting Turkey, but was also fighting Kaiser Wilhelms Germany Austro/Hungarian Empire and at that time Germany was considered to be stronger than Turkey. The English wanted the Jews of the world to side with ENGLAND and NOT with Germany. Jews owned banks and factories all over the world, keep in mind. An English politician named Lord Balfour promised that the Jews would have Israel/Palestine as a nation - simultaneously he promised the Arabs that they'd have the same piece of land as an Islamic land. PROBLEM IS: the Jews ALREADY BOUGHT AND DEVELOPED IT. Now, in addition the English promised a big chunk of the middle east to FRANCE! This is important. As part of the deal with the French, part of Israel was GIVEN to the French government of SYRIA, the Golan Heights. In exchange, the French gave up their rights to the giant oil fields at Mosul which today is in Iraq but which the French wanted to be part of "French Syria." So they swapped a big oil field so that part of Israel became part of Syria. Then... there used to be an Arab country called the Hejaz. They were allied with the English! They lost an intra-Arab war with the Saud Family from Riyad, the capital of Saudi Arabia. The Sauds annexed the Hejaz to be their nation. Now, the losers in that war were called Hashimites, that is what the former leaders of the Hejaz were called. These may also be called the Abdullahs since their KING was called Abdullah. The English divided up another section of Israel/Palestine - they gave one to the French and the other one to the Hashimites. They renamed this piece of Israel/Palestine "Trans-Jordan" later to be known as "Jordan." The local people who had lived there were NOT in charge - they had to take orders from the Hashimites. When the English put the Hashimites in charge of Jordan, they ALSO put a Hashimite King in charge of IRAQ. Then their king Abdullah was murdered for wanting to cooperate with the Jews who already lived on the part that the English did NOT give to the Hashimites (that Jewish part was renamed the League of Nations Mandate with England as the ruler). After the king was murdered for wanting to cooperate with Jews, Hussein the new Hashimite King took over Jordan. The English now were faced with a possible war between the Islamic Arabs and the Jews over who would own the Israel/Palestine area (despite the fact that the JEWS BOUGHT IT, DEVELOPED IT, FIXED IT UP). The English figured that the Moslems would be the winners and rather than fight the whole Islamic world, they decided to side against the Jews. The result was that the Jews had to fight a war against the ENGLISH! The most famous act is what the English call the "Terror Bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem" which was the ENGLISH military headquarters. The Jews vowed to keep killing ENGLISHMEN until Balfour's promise was kept. During this whole time, the Arabs were attacking the Jews everyday. The English did NOT want to let the Jews fleeing Hitler in, during WWII! But there was a world public opinion revulsion against the extermination and genocide by Hitler and Harry Truman and others pushed the English to LET the Jews in. The English WOULD let any Arab in. In the period 1947-49 the English left (good fucking riddance) and the ENGLISH General in charge of the Jordanian Army, in combination with the army of the King of Syria and the Egyptian army and the Saudi Arabian army and the Iraqi army and others.... tried to have a NEW genocide and throw the Jews into the sea! However, aid came from Stalinist Russia (YEAH!!) and the USA too and Jews from all over the world and in very heavy fighting the Arabs were DEFEATED. The victorious Jews renamed their nation ISRAEL and ceased to call themselves Palestinians! NOW, nobody in the world was called a Palestinian anymore because to Arabs the word meant JEW. And the Jews wanted to be called Israelis. There was a huge exchange of refugees at this time. This was similar to the exchange of refugees in the war between India and Pakistan in which a huge number of Moslems left India and a huge number of Hindus left Pakistan. The Jewish refugees were driven out of Moslem countries with their lands confiscated, no payment (they were NOT landlords, mind you). These Jews did NOT want to stay in refugee camps, they wanted to get jobs and make a new life. But the Arab refugees who the war chased out of Israel - they went into refugee camps receiving money from the UN which replaced the League of Nations, and joined terrorist and military organizations. They RENAMED THEMSELVES "Palestinians." They started a war which they VOWED would take as long as it took to annihilate Israel. The neighboring Arab nations cynically refused to grant these newly renamed Palestinian refugees citizenship! But to swing world opinion against Jewish Israel, they, THE ARABS, kept these people unemployed in squalid refugee camps where they got indoctrinated to fight the Jihad against Israel. The result was constant shelling, constant raids. In an effort to bring peace, Israel, which had regained the Golan Heights from Syria, GAVE IT BACK to Syria. S. Lebanon which Israel also gained, gave this all back to Lebanon in an effort to bring peace. The Ghaza strip they gave to Egypt. Rather than continue fighting, they allowed the Jordanian Arab Legion (their army) to control parts of Samaria and Judea including part of Jerusalem. In an effort to bring peace, they let the Hashimites keep this. The attacks were STILL relentless and ceaseless, Arabs would NOT STOP, year after year they kept up. The Israeli Government made the STUPID mistake of rejecting Stalin's Russia in favor of capitalist XIAN USA. Russian aid to Israel ceased and as Israel became viewed as more capitalist and religious and allied with the USA and the English BASTARDS, Russian aids flowed to the ARABS in massive amounts. By 1956, the Arabs, with Russian weapons, were trying to oust the English and French. Israel seized the moment, took advantage of this to form a temporary alliance with their hated English enemies and strike at their Arab tormenters who had been shooting at them every fucking day. The Israeli army defeated the Arabs, then an English and French army came in to take over the Suez Canal and block the Israelis from moving further onto Arab territory! (Jews should have KNOWN BETTER than to side with CHRISTIAN SCUM rather than side with atheists! I can not figure to this day WHY they did this when they had a true friend in the USSR and Stalin.) It was a DISASTER. The Russians, now the Krushchevite times, threatened to H- Bomb Israel! A huge amount of land was returned to Arab rule despite their military defeat. President Eisenhower adandoned Israel and refused to be an ally! He sided with the Arabs! He betrayed the English and French too in doing this. The result was more Arab attacks against Israel, thousands of small attacks. In 1967, the Israelis launched a MAJOR offensive for a change and took BACK the entire Sinai and held all of the Golan, ALL of Samaria, ALL of Judea, ALL of Jerusalem, took ALL of this back by force (which everyone understands!) Under pressure from President Carter the Israelis gave back part of the Golan and the entire Sinai - it naturally DID NOT bring peace to do this. It hardened the Arab HATE toward Israel. Giving land back was showing weakness and cowardice to an Islamic MACHO culture and it only spurred the Moslems on to fight more. Then came the Yom Kippur war in which the Jews were fasting and praying the Arabs struck with a sneak attack. They regained a lot of land in heavy fighting. The Jews counterattacked under General SHARON. He made a BRILLIANT move and utterly routed the Egyptian army: the Israelis could have conquered Cairo with ease since the Arabs were helpless (THEY SHOULD HAVE!) World opinion sided with the Arabs and an armistice was signed under interfascistinal (not an error) pressure. The UN had only one Jewish Nation, but MANY Islamic ones. Then, various USA presidents including Reagen and Bush pressured Israel to make additional concessions. Eventually, Israel, under intense pressure, agreed that parts of Samaria and Judea would be part of a NEW Arab Moslem "Palestinian" nation under the leadership of Yassir Arafat. Since then, there has been nothing but trouble: Suicide bombings, constant riots, rock throwing, knifing, sniping and since giving this large amount of land back to these Arabs, the situation is now the WORST it's ever been. The younger generation of Arabs sincerely believes that the answer to the problem is Moslem Arab rule for the entire middle east with no nation of Israel in existence. NONE realize that it was the MOSLEMS that kept those refugees down that it was THEMSELVES that didn't MOVE ON. LOTS of countries had refugees from wars - they all moved on. Example: GERMAN refugees from WWII that used to live in the Soviet lands. You don't hear these Germans today WHINING or saying they want their lands back when those lands were originally SLAVIC lands that they took (settled in, did NOT buy) and got ousted from. Stalin kicked them out: they STAYED out. NOBODY was living in those mid-east lands at one time. JEWS DEVELOPED THOSE LANDS after PAYING FOR THEM. Imperialists played cat and mouse as they did when LENIN turned the army against them. The Arabs are the lowest fucking SCUM of the earth, just look what they do to their own daughters and sisters and wives for a eye-opener. The USA government pandered to the American Jewish vote and gave aid to Israel while SIMULTANEOUSLY aiding and arming the Arabs on a massive scale. JUST LIKE the anglo Brits did. Also, the imperialists stir up the sides TO fight each other just as they do with all STUPID MORONS who don't get a clue. They also WONT let one side win. Whenever Israel was winning, they'd side with Arabs. Their ACTIONS show they want there to be war. The talk says the opposite. Right now, TODAY, the CIA has asked to be in charge of the so-called peace-negotiations between the Moslem "Palestinians" of Arafat and the Israeli government. The Israelis have to be terrified of the USA or stupid or insane to go along with this. It's a prescription for disaster. Past history PROVES that the Arabs ONLY recognize superior FORCE backed by a strong will to win. SCUM of the earth and what they alone do to WOMEN -- oh, that's PROOF ENOUGH. Veils, cut off clitoruses, sewn up female areas the whole nightmare. end post Jeff Gerber, I want the following left in, JG. NAKIVED has advice? No...no advice. Nakived is astounded, flabberghasted, too enraged to talk. Dada ANNIHILISMUS has advice, to Israeli Jews: NUKE the fucking place so NO ONE can live there and then COME TO THE USA. LET the fucking TOWEL-HEADED CLITLESS-WIVED DICK-HEADS HAVE it: a NEW wasteland, this time a radioactive one. DO IT. DO IT. I WOULD. I do not know why, I cannot FATHOM why the Jews turned their backs on Stalin. It's irrational. Stalin had been their friend. He GAVE them a nation, even. Some Jews moved there! Anglos had been their two-faced enemies for the most part, tho many Jews were such sickening anglophiles and even germanophiles. Most Jews of that time were so left wing that they could be Reds, many WERE Reds living in the capitalist world. WHY did they do this? I don't know. BUT -- Stalin should have been more tolerant and CONTINUED to help them just on the principle alone - tho I doubt Stalin knew Jewish history at all and he sure the hell NEVER understood "Jewish" as anything BUT a religious thing. That's obvious: he didn't think of Kaganovich as Jewish at all because Kaganovich was an atheist. In siding with the Islamic scum, Stalin, and all Communists from thence on, have sided with something even MORE anti-Communist than an American capitalist could possibly be. You don't have to hate a nation that hates you, tho Israel never HATED USSR at any time. You can STILL like them and aid them and perhaps try to UNDERSTAND their feelings. I know that in getting involved in the Islamic lands, the USSR was actually vying with the USA over the OIL shit. See Goldhagen! Israelis should STOP showing kindness, STOP being lenient to rabid fucking dogs. They should also tell the USA to GO FUCK ITSELF since we know that the Americans ain't gonna bomb them. Too bad there is NOT a real Jewish World Conspiracy which even the Islamic shit is believing these days. IF THERE WAS then they could simply BREAK every fucking nation economically that was against them or militarily against them. In this case, the Jews are NOT like the Anglos regarding the Amerinds at all. They are NOT like the Anglo-Germans regarding the Slavs either, tho that situation is JUST LIKE the Anglos/Amerinds. Jews used to LIVE there until Roman imperialists kicked them out. OK: that's too long ago? OK then, Amerinds owned lands we live on: TOO LONG AGO to matter. Equal equal. If conquest IS the order of the day, then the Israelis should NUKE their enemies. Get it over with. Kahani was right. NO QUARTER, NO COMPROMISE. SMASH THEM ALL, EVERY SINGLE ONE, MAN, WOMAN, CHILD. ALL. I know that this post alone, Jeff or me alone here, is NOT going to dissuade a whole Red Line of Dogma that started due to Stalin being IN THE POSITION of an imperialist force himself, and then Krushchev being a state capitlist imperialist for real! Stalin was in the SAME POSITION as the imperialists back then having just been ALLIES with them, to boot. Zionism is many things, depending on WHO defines it. It started out as a movement amongst people who wanted to GO HOME to where they were ousted by imperial Romans. It became semi-religious later on, some incentive to MOVE Jews to move there. Now the Islamics have MADE IT into a relgious issue. NO ONE WAS THERE for the most part but still, Turks AND Arabs made Jews PAY FOR the place. It was wasteland. Jews DEVELOPED it. ONLY THEN did the Arabs infest the place like pests, in droves of starving people, victims of their OWN shitty regimes, looking for jobs and such. ONLY THEN. The Jews should NEVER have let them in - NEVER. That was their second mistake. These scum LOVE Islam so much? Let them STAY in it.. You can not deal kindly with RABID DOGS. You have to shoot them. PERIOD. Since the imperialist bomb-happy USA loves oil so much, I would actively SUPPORT their military take over of these Islamic scums and support their legislating LAWS against their religiously insane practices. That's not culture to do such things unless you mean it as sex-culture: SADISM. I'd do one better: the Tatar way. Leave there a PILE of corpses in pyramidal form to rival the big stupid stone tombs built for the Pharoahs. To the last living THING. That's how the Tatars USED to deal with these two-faced fucking scum when they played this kind of shit with them. MASSACRE them. And while we are at it, Budenny SHOULD have marched the Red Army straight into England and let Beria send them ALL to the gulag. TO PERISH. That's not conquest, MIM. THAT IS VENGEANCE! ANY RED that sides with Islam as ANTI WOMAN. An ENEMY of life and womanhood. There ain't NO blaming honky or capitalists for the SHIT they do in Islamic countries. They did it WORSE long ago. Jews have ALWAYS been the friends of Communism. But ISLAMICS? They are the diametric opposite, the absolute enemies of it. They are the absolute enemies of womanhood and equality. There is scum, and then there is absolute scum. There are degrees of it. When it comes to SMASHING what I see as an enemy, I don't give a hoot WHO owns the bombs that kill them. And any Jew out there STUPID enough to whine against this polemic in favor of the POOR Islamic people may as well go KISS the fucking Gestapo on the lips and open your legs for them. MIM replies: Jeff Gerber seems to take a pro-Zionist stance in the sense of being pro-imperialist at least in action. On the other hand, Gerber also opposes militarism and capitalism at least in passing. Both Gerber and Nakived disagree with MIM on the principal contradiction in the world--the oppressed nations versus the oppressor nations. To their credit, they have done more than the rest of Marxism Space to give reasons. Many in Marxism Space don't agree with MIM, but can't quite spit it out and others hypocritically say they agree when they in fact don't have the foggiest idea what it really means to say that the principal contradiction is between the oppressed nations and oppressor nations. Against Gerber and Nakived, they repeat some of the same tired, old accusations with no basis in fact about MIM and the old Black Panther Party having a race line and not a class line. As MIM has stressed here repeatedly, first we have to answer the question of who is having surplus-value extracted from them and who is not. Gerber and Nakived raise two problems for communists. First, what happens when the oppressed nations favor oppression of wimmin? How can communists side with oppressed nations? MIM answers that there is no end of division that the imperialists can sow by asking this sort of question. At the same time, it is necessary that the leadership of revolution be in the hands of proletarian feminists. Secondly, and this requires analysis, what is to say that prioritizing the struggle against Islam will actually produce more gains for wimmin than prioritizing the struggle of oppressed nations against oppressor nations? Patriarchy is rampant everywhere, and singling out the womyn question in this context whitewashes patriarchy in the imperialist countries. Mao's method did the most to break down patriarchy the fastest. At first glance in the history books one might think Mao was the George Washington of his country. However, it goes further than that, because Mao also led the revolution with the greatest gains for wimmin, which is not to say that the struggle against patriarchy there was done or could rest on its laurels. Although Mao's revolution brought such rapid progress for wimmin, it was not a revolution targetting patriarchy or men as the principal enemy at any point. Another important point raised by Gerber regards imperialist militarism. He has drawn the connection between U.$. imperialism, profit and arming of both sides in the Middle East. We have to agree with him there, as anti-militarism in imperialist countries is very important. Seizing U.$. weapons for liberation in oppressed nations is one thing, but becoming a puppet of the U.$. arms traders and government is another thing. Siding with oppressed nations does not mean siding with U.$. puppet governments. --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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