File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1998/marxism-general.9805, message 141


Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 02:07:51 -0400
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: M-G: Out of the ashes of Jefferson Village!


Dear Blythes and subscribers to M-G, Cockroach readers and Usenet...

Below is what I wrote and was going to send out all over the net this 
morning regarding attempts to find a list server which would host and 
unmoderated "Marxist" list. However being that the new self constituted 
threesome have decided to go ahead and make all the decisions before even 
counting the votes, I say good luck and good bye..I take my hands from this 
project.. They have unfortunately put a fake coup de tate mentality of fake 
"democracy" before the funamental principle of having and open list.

And unfortunately this practice of taking decisions on the basis of a very 
few people
and according to simple majority rules is a direct threat to the principle 
of just creating and open unmoderated list...

I wish them all the luck in the world in trying to find a new home as they 
dig themselves out of the ashes of Jefferson Village. And I will be one of 
the first to subscribe to the new list if it becomes a reality. However, I 
can not on principle take part in their fake democratic practices which in 
this case argue for creating and open list--but the method used is so Coup 
de tate and based on loading the lists with a simple majority which means 
that any step forward towards creating and open list can be quickly taken 
back by any group walking in here and saying "we are the majority" and thus...

Our fake democrats and their ideas for taking decisions are directly 
countered posed to the principle of and open unmoderated list where all 
those claiming to fight in the interests of poor and working class people 
irrespective of any simple majority at one given time appear to dominate the 
list..will have the absolute right to argue and struggle for those politics 
which they think are in the interests of poor and working class people..

Warm regards
Bob Malecki

First I must say I have nothing against the new attempt by Juan, Rolf and 
Vlad to create a new list over at Blythes.

However I disagree about a number of things in the numerous posts this 
morning on this stuff..

First and foremost is that Rolf should not have written to Blythes on his 
own in regards to creating a new list. And what he writes is objectively wrong..
But first I have some old friends at Blythes whom I could write to about 
setting up a list. However first we have to agree on what the list will be. 
How much traffic (which I believe Rolf completely draws wrong conclusions).. 
5 to 20 posta aday is ridiculous in the long term..


M2 at Jefferson Village in fact was not "democratic" or "open" at all but 
the first attempt by the "ivory tower" and later to be called "duck pond" to 
create lists which banned certain people and discussions...The only two 
lists that have ever been open was the old m1 and it follower M-G...

Thirdly I disagree with the idea of "simple majority" as cutting across the 
fundamental principal of and open list..Either you have and open list period 
or you have a "democratic" simple majority list which is not open but is run 
according to what the human material in majority on the list at any given 
time think is a good idea..

Forthly I disagree with the committee of four. I think Dave B. ,Hugh, 
Stuward, Neil (our list bordigist) and others (not in the least numerous 
"Cockroach" subscribers like Brown, Zuus, some of their Japanese friends) 
certainly can be on the list as consistent fighters for the principle of and 
open unmoderated list.. 

Over and above this I am prepared to help in anyway to start new lists. 
Including being part of a panel or team who wants to continue in the 
tradition of having a place where all who claim to fight in the interests of 
poor and working class people
have a place to argue their points. This means all and no "simple majority" 
will ever be able to hi-jack a list for their own purposes...

I agree that marxism (unmoderated) is and important point to make in light 
of the numerous moderated lists now being served up by numerous people..Just 
because Marxism stands for arguing on the basis of history and living class 
struggle and not just one groups ideas of this stuff..

I also think that we should approach Blythe and others not as them doing us 
a service for money. But that we are a group of militants who think on 
principle that the Internet have a discussion list where all (in the workers 
movement) are 
welcome..And that Blythes should see it as their duty to create such a list 
as a service to poor and working class people. 

And if they do not want to do this then I will certainly make a big deal out 
of it. My whole life I have certainly tried to fight in the interests of 
poor and working class people. I did it and do it under enforced exile--no 
money--for example my numerous radio programs and TV appearances..So either 
Blythes helps us with this or they get put on the list of "leftist" servers 
who are using this forum to make a buck..And become and obstacle for poor 
and working class people to meet and discuss on this media...

And believe me I will stick it to Bythes or any other leftist server who 
want to stop this forum from becoming a reality wheter it is for money or 
bureaucratic reasons..
They know very well that that a forum like this could be a powerful 
instrument in favor of their services if it is done correctly..

We are offering and opportunity to expand their influence in leftist circles 
on the net as a server which fights in the interests of poor and working 
class people. Just as Jefferson Village in closing down these lists betray 
poor and working class people.
And we should be absolutely clear on this when we go out to announce a new 
list and a server willing to host a marxism (unmoderated) list..

I suggest sending  this to Blythes. (If the list approves) I will send it to 
marxism-general, and numerous people on the net..

And to my friends at Blythes, I suggest that you wheigh carefully the pros 
and cons of hosting one fairly simple option which at this point does not 
exist on the Internet anywhere. And it will be the duty of those responsible 
for running the list to make sure that this list becomes a beacon of openess 
for all in the workers movement.

And not another bizaar sectarian creation of all kinds of fake left 
diletantes, who continue with all kinds of opportunist and petty 
organizational manuvers to cover up their own political bankruptcy in order 
to build their *own* lists in order to control, trick and fool people...

So hopefully if not Bythes then some other server on the net will be 
interested in hosting a list which on principal will be open to all in the 
workers movement. And run by people that put this principle as its banner 
and the myriad of other lists now popping up which are not open, not 
democratic, because what they fear most is open hard polemics and fighting 
about our common future..

Finally, if Blythes sees this mainly as and opportunity to earn some money 
rather then creating a service for poor and working class people, their 
political parties and mass organizations, then they will not get one bit of 
help from Malecki. Malecki is and exile, poor and unemployed worker who in 
no way can financially support or uphold a long term committment such as we 
are suggesting.

But if they were smart then they could become the hub and water hole for 
many people on line looking for a list which fights in the interests of poor 
and working class people, with a policy of openess and seeing no self 
proclaimed tendency or trend in the workers movement or any of its "private" 
lists where everybody agrees to disagree as the norm. But and open and 
honest list where politics will be fought out and the subscribers are 
welcome to contribute, lurk, or participate in any way they feel comfortable..


Warm regards
Bob Malecki

-------------------------------------------------------
Check Out My HomePage where you can,

Read or download the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,
Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my Crystalball!

And Now the International Communist League Page!
Just push on the "Spartacist" Button.

Or Get The Latest Issue of,

COCKROACH, a zine for poor and working-class people.

Checkout the "RADIO TIME"  Page..

And now the "Black" and "Brown" pages..
 
http://home.bip.net/malecki

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Email <malecki-AT-algonet.se>
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