File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1998/marxism-general.9805, message 366


Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:46:53 -0400
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: Re: M-G: 71% + 94% for Peace Agreement


Chris on Ireland!
>That is about a democratic solution to the national question, and has no
>comparison, contrary to Bob Malecki's assertion, to the Middle East peace
>process where the hegemonic community is enforcing by armed might over the
>subordinate community humiliations and oppression every day. (I object too
>of course to his patronising reference to me as "our list Menshevik" - if I
>am a Menshevik a) there are dozens as Menshevik such as me on the list b)
>judging by his individualistic lack of collective discipline, Bob is also
>one of them).

Democratic? Not like the imperialist peace deal in the middle East? Hmmm. 
What is so democratic about the referendum shoved down the throats of both 
sides in Ireland by Clintion and "New" labor under the armed fist of a 
British imperialist occupation?

Please tell the list the profound difference between Israeli troops armed to 
the teeth and British Troops armed to the teeth to impose under a fake 
"referendum" continued imperialist domination of Ireland both North and South?

And your positions Chris have always been consistent with "Menshevik" 
politics.And yes there are numerous "Menshevik" supporters which have always 
been on these lists along with the Stalinists who support these kinds of 
positions..

In fact your report sounds like any Social Democratic and even bourgeois 
news commentator here in Sweden who are desperately pushing this imperialist 
solution on to the Irish working class. 

And it will not resolve in peace..It will not get the British Army out of 
Ireland..and it will not give the Irish the right to self determination in a 
federated republic of Socialist states in the British Isles..

Your position is the classical left cover for continued imperialist and in 
the second hand bourgeois nationalist domination of the Irish peoples to 
keep them in chains..

The ICL position not only condemns this imperialist peace deal, but with its 
theory of interpenetrating peoles has a solution for the whole of Irelands 
working class...

In a seperate letter I will send the statement made by the ICL's British and 
Dublin organizations which is counter posed to your Social Democratic pro 
imperialist peace solution that you are hawking along with Tony Blair's new 
labor..

Warm regards
Bob Malecki
>
>
>
>71.1% in the north for the Peace Agreement is a decisive vote leaving only
>266thousand voting against, out of a "protestant" population of one
>million. A minority.
>
>The Northern Ireland Assembly along lines of proportional representation
>will go ahead. There may be a higher vote for hard line unionists in the
>elections to it as part of the bargaining process eg over Republicans
>giving up guns, but in the long term Ireland is set on a pluralist course,
>and the leader of the Republic, Ahern, logic behind him when he  talks
>about an "agreed" Ireland rather than a "united" Ireland.
>
>Bob Malecki's assertion that I forgot to mention that all this took place
>under the armed state structure of British imperialism is false, and
>irrelevant. Of course that is the overall power relation. But as Lenin
>argued in relation to Norway and Sweden under bourgeois rule, he who "would
>profess indifference to questions of political freedom and democracy" ...
>"is naturally no longer a Social-Democrat" [Marxist]. And further in the
>same text "The close alliance between the Norwegian and Swedish workers,
>their complete fraternal class solidarity, *gained* from the Swedish
>workers' recognition of the right of the Norwegians to secede."
>
>Neo-liberalism has been strengthened and the armed structures of the state
>remain intact but will have far less excuse to resist progressive popular
>campaigns. The people will no longer be divided by an armed struggle that
>could not succeed. 
>
>Nobody who distances themselves from the people of Ireland on this issue in
>the name of marxism, is close to the heart of marxism, but rather is
>promoting a sectarian distortion of marxism.
>
>As an Englishman I want to recognise the courage and tenacity of the Irish
>people and hope for a new relationship of greater equality, and without
>domination. I also want to say, that whatever crimes or misdemeanours
>history may come to reveal, Gerry Adams has a very long and courageous
>history of commitment to wishing to seek unity with the working class of
>the northern unionist tradition, and I know of no instance where he ever
>consciously went against that. While I never could see this armed struggle
>as wise and likely to lead to an anti-imperialist victory, the majority of
>people in England consistently wanted British troops out of Ireland, and
>credit should be given to Gerry Adams for leading the Republicans to sum up
>their bitter experience and take a new road forward.
>
>No one in the name of marxism should criticise this strategy unless they
>can demonstrate on an analysis of the material balance of forces that it is
>in the interests of the Irish people and the working class to resume the
>armed struggle. 
>
>This is a great and progressive day.
>
>Chris Burford
>
>London.
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>At 01:13 AM 5/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>The turnout in Northern Ireland reported in the referendum as the polls
>>>just close was the huge proportion of 80%. 
>>
>>What our list Menshevik forgot to say on this stuff was how this election 
>>was carried out under the armed fist of British imperialism. There will be 
>>no peace and what Ireland gets in this process will be the ghettoization 
>>much like we see in the middle east fake "imperialist" peace process..
>>
>>Warm regards
>>Bob Malecki
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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