Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:10:55 +0000
From: Joćo Paulo Monteiro <jpmonteiro-AT-mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Re: M-I: sectist feuding


Louis Proyect wrote:
>
> At 06:14 PM 12/12/96 +0000, you wrote:
> >On sectist feuding
> >
> >
> >
> >I=92ve been on these lists for about a week now and I can say this could
> >be a hell of an useful and exciting place to be... if it weren=92t for the
> >damn endless sect feuding.
>
> Louis: Why are you posting this to M-I? We created M-I to provide a
> sanctuary from sect feuding. M-G, I assume, still has tiny groups denouncing
> each other. On M-I we prefer to take a step back away from this sort of
> thing and treat each other like comrades.
>
> >I=92ll tell you all: maos (sorry Rolf), trots, state caps,
> >neo-krutchevites, whatever. Stop it now. It=92s very foolish indeed to
> >think any of you will ultimately win this war in a cup a tea. I don=92t
> >want to sound desrespectful (or gory), but I=92m beginning to think that
> >the only hope is that you=92ll just start dying away with your schematic
> >formulae always on your trembling lips until the very last minute.
> >
>
> Louis: Yes, that Rolf definitely is a maos, but this list is maos-free.
> Don't worry about sounding disrepectful. Just remember that you only get
> three shots a day on M-I to be respectful, gory or fawning for that matter.
>
> >Advice for the young:
> >Stop listening to these morons. We=92ve got to buid something totally
> >anew. Study Marx and Engels very carefully. Some Lenin too - to be taken
> >with a especially critically alert mind. The only split that can teach
> >you something really important (I would call it the archetypal split) is
> >the Zimmerwald Left=92s one. But you can read Rosa vs. Bernstein too. Now
>
> Louis: Bah, advice is wasted on the young. I've never met as close-minded a
> group as the under-30 generation today. Ingrates, I tell you.
>
> >go for economic history and study carefully the economics of modern
> >capitalism. With all this you can study all the revolutionary wave of
> >the XX century (Russia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc.) by your own without
> >leaning on some =93party=94 guidelines. It=92s now time for you to start
> >working with people who have real dirt in their nails.
>
> Louis: "Party" guidelines? None of that allowed on M-I. Except for
> guidelines on what to wear and what to bring to drink at the big party I'm
> throwing for M-I subscribers next summer.
>
> >We need workers organization built anew. Kick out the corrupt union
> >leaders or build entirely new ones. Create international links for
> >collective bargaining with the big bosses and the multinationals. We
>
> Louis: Why should we build entirely new corrupt union leaders? This seems
> like a waste of time to me.
>
> >must study the laws of unequal development, international trade, the
> >theory of imperialism, so we can buid (in fact negociate) unity between
> >workers of different countries, with different levels of productivity.
> >We need to go global, in order to respond to the bosses globalization
> >offensive.
>
> Louis: Can't argue with this.
>
> >Once we have a solid international economic organization of workers, we
> >can start thinking in building a party with its most decided and learned
> >vanguard. Until then, theory and cadre formation will take place in
> >organs of press or clubs like this one, directly linked to the economic
> >mobilization of the working masses.
> >
> >=C2ngelo Novo
> >
>
> Louis: OK, OK. I'm with you. Just don't get M-I confused with M-G again or I
> might take the next plane over to Portugal and biff you one.
>
>      --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

You wrote:

 Louis: Why are you posting this to M-I? We created M-I to provide a
> sanctuary from sect feuding. M-G, I assume, still has tiny groups denouncing
> each other. On M-I we prefer to take a step back away from this sort of
> thing and treat each other like comrades.


Where did all that storm about 'Godena's remarks' took place? In fact,
that incident killed an important dialog I was having with Louis (G) and
I'm not sure if he was totally innocent in that sabotage. Hugh Rodwell's
response to Zeynep about the 'irrelevance of the Soviet Union...' insn't
it 'party guideline' through and through? What about thoses endless
Kbytes of intra-trotskyte arguing and dealing.  Your intentions may be
the best but the fact remains that M-I is full of
sectarian crap.  Maybe you just don't notice it anymore.
Later you wrote:

Louis: Bah, advice is wasted on the young. I've never met as
close-minded a
> group as the under-30 generation today. Ingrates, I tell you.
>

I suppose you must go to one of those parents groups to share your
experiences.
You also wrote:

Why should we build entirely new corrupt union leaders? This seems
> like a waste of time to me.

Na,na,na, you're been mean here. I meant entirely new unions and
I'm pretty sure you understood me allright. I think you should have a
little more respect for the difficulties of the non-english speakers. In
fact, I
think that's netiquette rule n=BA 1.


And, finally:

 I
> might take the next plane over to Portugal and biff you one.


Oh, that would be great. I'll be at the airport with a sign that says:
"Over here old gringo!"


Comradely,

=C2ngelo Novo




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