Date: 16 Jan 97 21:02:32 EST
From: jonathan flanders <72763.2240-AT-CompuServe.COM>
Subject: M-I: Doug Henwood's Folow-on


 >> Now I don't mean to dispute Engels' description of the 19th C English
 working class. But two questions: 1) how do you expect to recruit allies
among a group you consider to be so debased, unless you lie about your 
real sentiments to them, and 2) how could such a profoundly debased group
of people ever become a revolutionary subject? <<Doug Henwood

Jon Flanders:

  Good questions. 

There is debasement and debasement I think. The destitute working class
of the maquiladoras suffer the wretchedness of almost absolute poverty, 
combined with mind-numbing, body destroying work. 

Then there are the workers of the advanced capitalist countries, like 
those I work with. Better paid, with better working conditions, but still 
debased by capitalist rule, mind-numbing work, etc.

Despite all this, both groups  can and will rebel, one striving to win 
elementary human rights, the other to hang on to those rights already 
won.

To me, Engels concern here is more with the spiritual and mental 
debasement, than the physical misery. That debasement is what all workers 
under capitalism have in common. Physical misery can vary. There is more 
than you would think in the developed capitalism. I recommend 
"Rivethead", by Ben Hamper, for a close-up view.

As for recruiting "allies", that's not a term I would use in relation to 
the working class. As a marxists, we try to win workers to socialism, a 
marxist, communist world view, which is the tool needed to become a 
revolutionary subject.

Why would lying be necessary in this process?  



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