Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:03:53 +0100 (MET)
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: RE: M-I: utopian socialism


 Ishai Parasol writes;
>
>I must agree with Barklry Rosser.
>
> 1)  In every revolution there must be an utopian element. The meaning of 
the revolution is to make a realization to the hopes that we have (to get 
>from one situation to another. In our case - from a capitalist to a 
socialist one).
> 2)  The connection between the utopian socialism and the class struggle 
revolution is depending on the revolutionary consciousness. If I use LP's 
example about the israeli kibbutzes I have a proof to this argument. My 
movement, "Hashomer Hatzair" which is a kibutzes movement, decided on it's 
foundation convention (1927) that: (I QUOTE):
>     "The kibbutzes movement sees the  kibbutz as the:
> A)  Pioneer "cells" of the new society.
> B)  The constructive "tool" of the israeli workers class.
> C)  The "tool" for working immigrants.
> D)  The base for the class struggle in israel.
>
>The kibbutzes movement sees zionism revolution as an uncompleted one 
without a socialist marxist revolution.
>
>The kibbutz has an historical constructive part in the israeli class 
struggle by:
>     - building collective communities all over the country.
>     - maximum pervasion to all the market manufacturing       
>       ramifications.
>     - preparing the class for self managing."
>
>The problem begun with the third generation in the kibbutzes, which didn't 
have the revolutionary consciousness (except the movement's education to 
it). This phenomenon caused the kibbutz to "abandon" its revolutionary goals.
>Today, in our movement, we have young collective groups that live in 
communes all over israel (especially in the "low" class neighborhoods and 
towns)and with our revolutionary consciousness we are involved in 
communities and education projects together with political involvement in 
the israeli labor politics and the trade union, and our main goal is a 
REVOLUTION which bring us to a better & SOCIALIST society.
>This is an utopian revolution !!!

The only thing utopian about this stuff is not realizing state power! How 
kibbutzes or anything else are organised must be seen in relationship to who 
has state power. Otherwise they are at best utopian islands in a sea of 
reaction. 

I disagee with Aldolfo who sees the Kibbuzes almost as nests of Zionists. I 
say that Kibbutzes are and organisational form that reflects who has state 
power. Thus the Zionist trend certainly is reflected in the Kibbutze 
movement in Israel.

But under the Dictatorship of the proletariat the Kibbutzes certainly could 
play an entirely different and positive roll as and organisational form.

Bob Malecki

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