File spoon-archives/marxism-international.archive/marxism-international_1997/97-01-29.113, message 35


Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:44:59 +0100 (MET)
Subject: M-I: Re: M-G: so-called "deformed workers states"


>> 
>> David writes;
>> >The simplest refutation of the Trotkyist position on the Soviet Union 
>> >being socialist, is the fact that Western capitalism is obviously a more 
>> >advanced stage of social development than Soviet "socialism".   A 
>> >"socialism" that is inferior to capitalism aint socialism. With the 
>> >demise of the old Soviet state capitalism, we are now seeing the messy 
>> >transition to this more advanced western form of capitalism. 
>> 
 David the above is just and empirical crock of bullshit. In the first place 
 "Socialism" does not exist anywhere nor has its. What we have had is a 
number of 
different transitional societies where capitalist relations were overthrown. 
We have had a "healthy" workers state, The Russian October Revolution with 
 was dominated by the dictatorship of the Proletariat in the Soviets and led 
 by the Bolshevik Party and Lenin. But this "heallthy" workers state came in 
 backward Russia and because of the degeneration and destruction of the 
 Russian CP and the Third International under Stalin changed that. Then we 
 have had the various "deformed" workers states in numerous countries which 
 also overthreww capitalism albeit without the working class. But never the 
 less transitional states.
 
 Just the idea of transitional states being "better" or "worse" then 
 capitalist states is just ridiculous and actually exposes you as a very base 
opportunist. As if one can judge the two systems which according to you 
 "Western capitalism is obviously a more advanced stage of Social 
 development". Just that line tells tons about our ultra leftists here. As if 
 one can compare two societies by the number of yuppie telephones or 
 something. These people are hardly Communists in fact renagades from 
 anything about Communism when they start telling peopl that the Soviet Union 
 even with the Stalinists leaped from the middle ages and a feudal peasant 
 society to being the other super power in the world. And they did this in 
 the mist of two world wars that destroyed not only a huge percent of the 
 population but industry and territory as well!
 
 But for our ultra leftists they compare Russia in this case with America who 
 in both wars was never even near wear the bombs were falling or occupied. I 
 just can,t wait to hear what these people have to say if for example Turkey, 
 or the Phillipines were to overtghrow Capitalism with some sort of 
 transitional regime whgich hardly could be "better" then ant western country..
 
 The ultra leftists have once again exposed themselves. They are saying quite 
 clearly obviously we are on the side opf western imperialism because they 
 think them supieror! It is just this kind of drastic reactionary fake 
leftist bullshit that makes the ultra lefts in fact ultra rights and here 
 they even admit it!
 
 Bob Malecki






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