File spoon-archives/marxism-international.archive/marxism-international_1997/97-02-05.012, message 20


Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:21:53 +0000
From: Richard Bos <Richard.Bos-AT-hagcott.meganet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: M-I: the proletarian struggle


Gerald Levy wrote:
> 
> Viraj wrote:
> 
> > My declared aim, in participating in this list is  to use it to further
> > the proletarian struggle.
> 
> Such idealism!
> 
> I. This list and the proletarian struggle
> 
>    a) have discussions on this list resulted concretely in the
>       intensification and furthering of any proletarian struggles?

Richard:
The discussions deepen the knowledge and understanding of Marxists from
different Marxist traditions. This can only result in intensifying and
furthering proletarian struggle.

>    b) what actions, e.g. solidarity actions, strikes, international
>       demonstrations, have been organized via this list?

Richard:
There have been many appeals for solidarity via this list, and I, and
others have participated in them. 

>    c) what proletarian organizations have been founded as a result of >       this list?

Richard:
Why do you think that there should be?


>    d) whose lives have been saved and/or who has been released from
>       imprisonment as a result of this list?
> 

Richard:
How can you measure such things? Are you saying that we should not even
bother to try?

>    [Answers:
>     a) no.
>     b) none.
>     c) none.
>     d) no one.]
> 
> II. The composition of the list
> 
>     a) mostly students, especially graduate students, and professionals
>        (and a petty capitalist or two).

Richard:
True. But this should not mean that they are incapable of doing
anything.

>     b) mostly from the US and other English-speaking countries from
>        advanced capitalist nations.

Richard:
Of course. This is an English language list, and very few people from
the less technologically advanced have access to the equipment needed.
It is a shame, but you can't blame the list subscibers for that. In fact
they would be in favour of changing that.

>     c) lots of representatives of various small Maoist and Trotskyist
>        organizations (plus a few Social Democrats).
> 

Richard:
I agree. This does not really reflect the "left" as a whole. I know at
least one person who lurks on this list who says that he prefers to
argue with Trotskyists in his local pub rather than via his computer. It
is up to us all to encourage more people to join in.

> III. Concrete results
> 
>     a) on m1, the predecessor, of m-int, the most tangible, concrete
>        result of list discussions was the "Flaming Path."
> 

Richard:
eh?

>     b) What has been accomplished on m-int?
>        i) Those Marxists from around the world, who have enough income >          to afford computers and the ability to get on-line, have had the
>           opportunity to see the flames develop and rise.
>        ii) List members have had the opportunity to show off their
>           erudition  and tell stories about how great and important they
>           were in the good old days -- a kind of dysfunctional family
>           reunion.
>        iii) several listmembers had the honor of being warned that they
>           could be fired for what they said on this list.
> 
> How has any of the above "advanced the proletarian struggle"? Given the
> composition of this list, why would we expect that to be a result?
> 
> This, of course, doesn't imply that participation on this list can't have
> any effect on the proletarian struggle. Indeed, one could argue
> convincingly that all of the time that individuals spend engaging in
> "discussions" here means that they will have _less_ time to _participate_
> in those struggles. One step forward, two steps back.
> 
> Jerry
> 

Richard:
Maybe the way to change things is for you to tell us what positive
things you do. Organise a campaign that we can all unite around.

 Do you really expect people to respond warmly to what you have to say
Jerry? If you set a positive example, you are more likely to get people
to pick up on the atmosphere it creates. If you constantly engage in
this sort of negative critisism, then you get dismissed as a pompous,
sancimonious, jack-ass. All you then succeed in doing is fan the flames
that you claim to abhore. 

 
Comradely,

Richard.                     
      New Worker Online http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2853



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