From: "Rosser Jr, John Barkley" <rosserjb-AT-jmu.edu>
Subject: Re: M-I: List suspensions
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:40:43 -0500 ()


Richard,
     The point has been made by others, but perhaps it is 
worth repeating with some elaboration, as I don't remember 
whether or not you were on the infamous now-dead M1 list.
     Adolfo Olaechea is a very witty, intelligent, 
articulate individual who eloquently speaks in favor of the 
PCP and for a particular political line, when he is not 
flaming people, calling people agents provocateurs or 
police agents, or issuing death threats.  But:
     1)  There is no evidence whatsoever that he has any 
official status as a spokesman for the PCP.  He was 
challenged by numerous individuals on M1 to provide such 
evidence, such as a statement from the PCP Central 
Committee.  None was ever forthcoming.
     2)  There are at least four identifiable factions 
associated with, or claiming to be associated with, the PCP 
that I am aware of.  One is a "pro-peace negotiation" 
faction that some claim even includes Chairman Gonzalo 
himself, although mentioning that or even that there are 
any factions at all is enough to draw forth charges of 
Fujimorism, imperialism, blah blah blah from Adolfo.  The 
second is the Avakianist-RCP crowd, whom the remaining two 
factions claim is in the first camp, although their 
publications in the US (_Revolutionary Worker_) are full of 
anti-peace negotiation and pro-war articles.  Then there is 
the "New Flag" Quispe faction and finally the Adolfo/WMC 
faction. The latter two engaged in a horrible flame war 
last year on M1, each accusing the other rather 
ridiculously of being "Avakianist pro-peace negotiator 
agents provocateurs" and worse.  Quispe came out of that 
looking pretty bad.  Adolfo is on record as declaring that 
all of these first three factions, plus the Tupac Amaru, 
are Fujimorists who should be "eliminated."
     3)  I have never seen anybody verify independently 
that there is indeed a price on Adolfo's head set by the 
Peruvian government or that it is at the level he claims.  
There may well be. But, this certainly is the kind of claim 
that has been used by a lot of his admirers on this list to 
declare that we should all bow down and kiss his holy 
toenails because he is such an authentic revolutionary, 
blah blah blah.  It is pretty likely that he has lied about 
his "status" with the PCP.  I would not at all be surprised 
if this latter claim is, if not an outright lie, at least 
somewhat exaggerated.
     4)  Further along in this category was his famous 
claim to have founded a "soviet" in a university in Lima 
back in the early 1960s.  Efforts to verify this by others 
led to not much particularly impressive.
     5)  I have no doubt that Adolfo has supported the PCP 
and continues to do so, in his own way.  I am also 
reasonably certain that he would be in serious trouble if 
he were to return to Peru, even if the price on his head, 
if any, is not as high as he has claimed.  I also would 
regret if he does not return to this list.  He is a very 
distinct voice, whom I shall miss, even if I strongly 
disagree with him on numerous matters and question certain 
of his personal claims.
Barkley Rosser
On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 23:14:07 +0000 Richard Bos 
<Richard.Bos-AT-hagcott.meganet.co.uk> wrote:


> Rob Schaap wrote:
> > 
> > A rare moment of disagreement with comrade Bos.
> > 
> > We'll get nowhere if we question the moderators on what were very light
> > responses to vicious flaming that was threatening to undo the list.  I now
> > realise Jerry had Adolfo's temper in his sights from the off, but we
> > knowingly entered a moderated list for the benefits that affords.  And
> > moderation always comes at a price.
> > 
> > I can appreciate, if not even begin to imagine, the crucible that forged
> > Adolfo's politics and rhetorical style - but I'm happy to call a spade a
> > fucking shovel too.  And Adolfo's ravings of late have done him no credit
> > and the list a great disservice.  They were aimed at people other than just
> > Levy, and apparently approved violence within the left.  Shit like that
> > should be spanked every time it happens. If nothing is done now - well,
> > anything goes from now on - and we'll waste even more time seeking out the
> > odd gem amongst the shrieking machismo.  And who'd be a moderator then?
> > 
> > I hope Adolfo and Jay do come back.  But I also hope the moderators don't
> > succumb to bullies.  If we humour two people, we may end up losing a
> > hundred.
> > 
> > Let's get back to business.
> > Rob.
> > 
> 
> Dear Rob,
> 
> I thought very hard before I said what I said about the suspensions.
> Adolpho's way is not the way that I would tackle issues, and I can
> understand that his way of tackling people who many would see to be
> counter-revolutionaries is very direct. He is not on this list as an
> individual; he represents the voice of an organisation engaged in real
> life and death struggle against a ruthless enemy. Much has been made of
> the violence of the "Shining Path", but they, and the Peruvian people
> have suffered far more violence from the other side. They have been
> forced to adopt extreme tactics that are sometimes mistaken, but are
> nevertheless neccessary as they see them.
> 
> The members of this list who consider themselves to be revolutionaries
> should stand for justice rather than even-handedness.
> 
> However uncomfortable we feel about the language of some in the recent
> exchanges; our attitudes and actions should be in the context of the
> position in the class struggle of those involved. Do they represent
> any-one but themselves? How important is it for us to hear what they
> have to say? Do they have anything to say at all?
> 
> These are difficult questions for the list moderators, and I do not envy
> their impossible positions, but sometimes standing for justice comes
> before standing for the rules.
> 
> Comradely,
> 
> Richard.                     
>       New Worker Online http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2853
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Rosser Jr, John Barkley
rosserjb-AT-jmu.edu




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