Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 05:53:05 +0000
From: Richard Bos <Richard.Bos-AT-hagcott.meganet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: M-I: Why don't we all wait...


I sent this reply to Zeynep last night in order to keep within 3 posts
for the day.

Louis and Jon have not spoken on these matters yet. Their opinions would
be greatly valued.

R.

Zeynep Tufekcioglu wrote: (quoting Richard)
> 
> >The people who are making attacks that cannot be answered are doing it
> >because they know that they cannot be answered. They are not going to
> >listen to your appeals Zeynep. They are not friends of yours, or the
> >Turkish revolution, or any revolution. Will you stand up to them and
> >fight back?
> >
> >Comradely,
> >
> >Richard.
> >      New Worker Online http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2853
> >
Zeynep:
> 
> I'm not exactly sure whom I'm to stand up to and fight.
> 

Richard:
I mean the people whose sole purpose on the list is to attack the
Communists. They attack the existing socialist countries; they attack
former and current Communist leaders; they critisise most national
liberation movements; they have shown no support for the hunger strikers
in your country. Their remarks are not comradely critisisms, or designed
to promote understanding and co-operation. 

Zeynep:
> I believe that this is also from you;

Richard:
> 
> >These are difficult questions for the list moderators, and I do not envy
> >their impossible positions, but sometimes standing for justice comes
> >before standing for the rules.
> 
Zeynep:
> Anyway, stupid me thought I was fighting against the bourgeoisie for a new
> world of freedom, free from oppression and exploitation.
>

Richard:
I do not doubt your dedication Zeynep. I admire, and agree with what you
say on most subjects. 

Zeynep:
> I also think there are certain time-honored friends and enemies of the
> revolution. Well proven.
> 
> Honesty and dedication to the point of being able to put one's ego aside
> helps, for one. Being able to grasp the difference between those committing
> the Crime of Difference of Opinion and real Counter-revolutionaries and
> enemies of the revolution also helps. Is that too subtle? 

Richard:
Please do not doubt my intelligence. I do not expect all Marxists to
agree on everything. I welcome the chance to have genuine discussion
with people from a Trotskyist background, or Maoists, or Left Social
Democrats. Most people on this list prove that those discussions can
take place without any problems. There are also some who want to divide
the people who want to discuss and find points of unity.

Zeynep:
>Standing up for
> the simplest of all principles, such as not condoning death-talk in any form
> against any person that declares himself/herself on the side of the working
> class, and who is not proven to be otherwise (I mean *really* proven, not
> imagined) would also help, I suppose. Recognising honest criticism is the
> best gift to the revolution, and being able to look from the swamp of one's
> ego would probably be beneficiary too.
> 
> Anyone who has a real stake in a revolution, what I call a friend of the
> revolution, must feel the pain of watching too many organisations or people
> flatter themselves all the way to defeat. It personally pains me to see too
> many honest and serious revolutionaries repeat the mantras of the past into
> trance, and I see anything that might remotely shake them out of it as a
> very welcome event. That, of course, requires listening to criticism, and of
> course, allowing the disagreeable act of letting those that disagree with
> you talk. Which, surprisingly, is very difficult if everyone in disagreement
> is branded as not being a friend of the revolution. I guess that simple
> principle also deserves standing up and fighting for.
>

Richard:
You should know me well enough by now Zeynep to know that is not a fair
reflection of my views. I have never taken a sectarian approach to
others on the list.

Zeynep: 
> I don't and can't even begin to comprehend how anyone who has his/her heart
> first with the revolution of the working people, then with his/her
> organisation does not recognise that sectarianism, being closed to
> criticism, nurturing the false, criminal belief that an organisation that is
> engaged in a real war must be handled with kid-gloves and be allowed to
> excuse and substitute everything with the simple fact that they are waging a
> right war against the enemy does not see that is what is killing the
> revolution, both before and after.
> 
> The idea is not to feel good and congratulate each other all the time. We
> should feel bad and criticise each other, and create an environment allowing
> that criticism. I'd keep the congratulations a few and far between. Not
> while capital rules most every square meter of the planet anyhow.
> 
> The only injustice I'm afraid of is doing injustice to the revolution. Do
> you think the rules which try to ensure that an environment for free, if not
> always intelligent or proper, discussion are there because some of us are
> nice boys and girls? That the attempt at condemning death-talk and "justice"
> contradict?
> 
> Where the hell is the spirit of Lenin asking for Menshevik Martov's health
> in his own death bed? What happened to the breed of revolutionaries like
> Mahir Cayan, who died trying in the events after trying to arrange a
> jailbreak for his comrade Deniz Gezmis, who had incidentally broke away from
> their joint organisation with Mahir to form his own, an event that witnessed
> all parties calling each other most every name you can think of.
> 
> The most serious injustice is done when organisations lose the real picture.
> That is why it is more important to ruthlessly criticise organisations. Even
> more so than criticising each other. It is an absolute must, and it is not a
> weakness against the bourgeoisie to do so and some of the criticism will be
> wrong, misplaced, undue. Better to have some wrong and misplaced criticism
> than too few well-placed and due criticism. Your criteria treating people
> and organisations is standing on its head. People can be ignored and
> forgiven more readily than organisations. With an attitude like yours, we'll
> play in the sand for a long time.
> 
> And the real enemies of the revolution rejoice no less for closing the epoch
> that was supposed to be the epoch of transition to socialism with
> reiterating their power, while we happily squabble and make excuses of each
> other.
> 
> Zeynep
> 

Richard:
I am sorry that you think that I am taking a sectarian approach. Do you
think that we have anything in common with people who make comments such
as "leap, lemmings, leap!"? Are they for the revolution, just because
they say they are?

I have great feelings of comradeship for people like Gary Mc., Jon,
Louis P., and others who come from different backgrounds. Please do not
think that I, and others only want to speak to people with whom we agree
all the time.
-- 
Comradely,

Richard.                     
      New Worker Online http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2853




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