File spoon-archives/marxism-international.archive/marxism-international_1997/97-03-09.201, message 5


From: "Rosser Jr, John Barkley" <rosserjb-AT-jmu.edu>
Subject: Re: M-I: State of the list
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:10:54 -0500 ()


     I wish to applaud the very reasonable remarks by Louis 
Godena below.  A major reason that I opposed and oppose 
suspensions and expulsions is precisely that it puts the 
moderators in the position of either making or appearing to 
make political judgments with all the resulting extra 
controversy that entails.  I would again call for letting 
the chips fall where they will within the confines of the 
3-per day limit (this is my third for today, given LG's 
dictum on his repost of our private discusssion, 
ahem, :-)). To those unhappy with the three per day limit, 
I say that there is very good reason for it, and what 
happened on M1 is the evidence.  As we have seen recently 
here, even with that limit, things can get pretty heated.
     BTW, I also would like to see us get to some more 
substantive discussions.  I recently made some remarks 
about rumblings in Washington over Turkey.  Nobody saw fit 
to respond.  I made comments on post-Deng China.  Nobody 
saw fit to respond.  I think that a cyberseminar on the 
nationalism issue, proposed by Louis Proyect, is a very 
good idea, although it could potentially get pretty lively. 
I also think the question of the future of Central Asia is 
a very important one, a question that so far only Louis 
Godena and I have had much to say about.
     Here's hoping for an improved atmosphere soon.
BArkley Rosser
On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:31:08 -0500 (EST) Louis R Godena 
<louisgodena-AT-ids.net> wrote:


>         
> Adolfo feels that it is Zeynep who is primarily responsible for his being
> suspended,  along with Jay Miles and Jerry Levy,  from
> marxism-international.    This is not true,  and to the extent that I am
> responsible for this misconception,  I apologize,  both to Adolfo and
> Zeynep,  as well as to the list.     The truth is,  there is enough
> responsiblity to go around for all of us,  list members and moderators
> alike.    The language and tenor of the list has declined considerably in
> the past weeks,  owing in part to the lack of informative and thoughtful
> posts that marked its auspicious beginnings.    If familiarity breeds
> contempt,  certainly the same is true of ennui and lack of interest: the
> quality of the list has at times bordered on the contemptible. 
> 
> I know Zeynep,  in particular,  was upset by the prolific use of what she
> termed "death talk" that was flying back and forth on the list these past
> weeks.    She has of course lived and suffered in a country where the
> fractious politics of the left facilitates the rule of a brutal,
> neo-liberal regime.    This has doubtlessly helped shape her attitude toward
> this sort of thing.   On the other hand,  she is *not* interested,  contrary
> to Adolfo's rather hasty opinion,   in "mollycoddling" traitors or enemies
> of the revolution,  but rather in working to help bring to fruition that
> humane society that  revolution was supposed to bring about.    Nor does she
> sit between "two stools" dispensing advice to both sides.    She has tried
> to do what is right in a difficult and complex situation,  a situation often
> made worse by the often provocative and reckless behavior of her severest
> critics.    I know she has done a fine job as moderator of
> marxism-international,  at no inconsiderable risk to herself.    She does
> not deserve the kind of abuse that has been heaped upon her with increasing
> ferocity these past few days.   Jon Flanders,  too,  has done yeoman service
> amidst a hectic and demanding schedule.    The following remarks do not,  so
> far as I know,  reflect the opinions of either of these two worthies. 
> 
> I believe this situation was badly handled from the outset.   I must bear a
> good deal of responsiblity for this myself, as I indicated before.
> Adolfo's remarks,  as provocative and ill-advised as they may have been,
> did not constitute a "death threat" against Jerry Levy.    Nor,  probably,
> was his use of the terms "eunich" and "pregnant", meant to connotate
> misogyny or sexism.    Further,  I feel now that Adolfo is right to take
> umbrage at his suspension,  though he has made it difficult to resolve this
> problem with any degree of equanimity.    He has chafed at my suggestion
> that he clarify his remarks to Jerry Levy.    On the other hand,  if he did
> not threaten Jerry Levy -- and it is clear that he did not -- what is there
> to "clarify"?    I'm afraid Adolfo has caught me out.    His infuriatingly
> intransigent behavior has forced me to confess that I acted too hastily (a
> fault I am quick to detect in others) and without due consideration.   I
> believe Adolfo is right: his suspension -- and,  logically,  that of Jay
> Miles -- was taken in error and should be rescinded forthwith.   I take full
> responsibility for this state of affairs as I was remiss and devoting too
> little time and attention to it.    I also think that the situation with
> Jerry Levy deserves another look,  though this is his second suspension.
> 
> I quarrel with Adolfo,  however, in his characterization of
> marxism-international as a forum where "traitors" and
> "counter-revolutionaries" are given full reign to thrive and carry out their
> mischief.    Adolfo knows -- and he knew when he joined up,  as did Jay and
> Jerry Levy -- that marxism-international is a list whose members embrace a
> wide gamut of political viewpoints and who themselves hail from diverse
> political traditions.    It is not the purpose of the moderators of
> marxism-international to "clear out" those with whom Adolfo disagrees or
> whose presence on planet earth he finds especially vexing.    The role of
> the moderators is to facilitate the aim and purpose of marxism-international
> as spelled out in the list rules      Adolfo will have to rely on his own
> prowess as an agitator and polemicist,  which is considerable,  to achieve
> that worthy goal.    That is not the task of Jon,  Zeynep,  or myself,  and
> Adolfo should not act as though it is.     
> 
> Louis Godena
> 
> 
> 
>      --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

-- 
Rosser Jr, John Barkley
rosserjb-AT-jmu.edu




     --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---



   

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