Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:32:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Louis Proyect <lnp3-AT-columbia.edu>
Subject: M-I: Reply to Rahul


Rahul:
>
>The record of Stalinist/Maoist sectarianism on this and previous lists is
>crystal clear. From the Olaechea/Quispe "Black Vomit" wars, where each accused
>the other of being a "counterrevolutionary Avakianist" down to the current day
>when Olaechea and all of his cronies call Trotskyists (and anyone who ever
>disagrees with them) counterrevolutionaries, imperialist agents, fascists, etc.
>If this isn't sectarianism, I don't know what is.

Louis: There is a bit of gap between the "Black Vomit" wars and "down to the
current day" in Rahul's chronology. That includes the months following the
formation of m-i and which lasted until very recently. This was a time when
everybody seemed please with the list. Most people are pissed because we
have gotten sidetracked with the Stalin-Trotsky bullshit recently. That is
why Richard Bos split, a perfectly good comrade who you probably considered
an enemy because he approved of Stalin.

Meanwhile, Rahul has never liked m-i, even at the time of its birth. He
thought it stunk right from the beginning. He blamed me for this, by the
way. I was the reason that m-i stunk. Right, old pal? It had nothing to do
with Adolfo. It had everything to do with Louis Proyect. 

Rahul was a fan of m2, a list which seemed to have lost a lot of its steam
when the charismatic moderator Lisa Rogers died of a heart-attack last year.
I have no idea why he--or Jerry--would want to be on a list that has a
self-avowed "Stalinist" as one of its 3 moderators. My guess is that he,
like Jerry, needs companionship. Since thaxis is such a moribund place
nowadays, Rahul comes here to have "exchanges" with people even if they are
completely hostile. Rahul, do you really want to turn into a cyberpath like
Jerry Levy and spend every day poring over people's posts for examples of
offensive speech? Don't you have better things to do with your time? Perhaps
not.

 Of course, to Proyect, having
>come out of a cult (the SWP), only those with sympathy for that particular cult
>can be sectarian. I have never read any official stuff of the PCP, except for
>things posted by Quispe, whom I trust about as much as I trust Olaechea, but,
>in any case, that stuff is fairly sectarian as well. 

Louis: What crap. I regard all Trotskyites as sectarians. The truth is that
I *do* have a different attitude toward Maoists and "Stalinists". At least
>from someone like Adolfo, you could get informed opinion about Peru. For all
the time I have been on the Spoons lists, I have got nothing from the
Trotsky-worshippers except calls for a Revolutionary International. 

>
>The point that I have raised, of course, as Proyect well knows, is not Stalin
>admiration. In the third world, it is a very understandable and excusable
>phenomenon, often not really affecting the realities of struggle against
>capitalist oppression. In the first world, it is more of a fitting subject for
>abnormal psychology and remedial education than for serious political
>contention. 

Louis: What a profound insight. Rahul, you are brilliant. Did we need you to
tell us that admiring Stalin in 1997 is *abnormal*. This is not 1937 when
nearly every CIO official or Hollywood director subscribed to the Daily
Worker. When people like Mark Jones try to start a thread about how
admirable Stalin was, the best thing to do is ignore them, just as you would
somebody who believed in flying saucers.

Jim Hillier wanted to start a Stalin versus Trotsky thread last year--with
Adolfo's urging-- and I told them I wasn't interested. And you know
something, it went nowhere. The reason we had an outbreak of Stalin versus
Trotsky a couple of months ago was because some people wanted to throw
gasoline on an open fire in the hopes of destroying m-i. These sick and
angry people were not successful and will not be successful, because the
rest of us are interested in keeping this valuable forum alive and healthy.

>
>There are people here in Turkey who think the Soviet Union was a wonderful
>place and defend things like the crushing of Hungary and Czechoslovakia because
>of the need to "defend the workers' state" who are, even so, the finest people
>I hope to know. They would be as disgusted by Olaechea's thuggishness and
>Proyect's hypocritical apologetics as I am. 
>

Louis: Apologetics? Okay, all right. I am an apologist, a centrist, a
Menshevik, an opportunist, fascist, etc. That's me, pure undiluted
rottenness. You are in great company, Rahul. Jerry Levy, Malecki, Rodwell
and now you. Go ahead. Take your best shot. I have a strong back and thick
skin. 

I invite you to call me an apologist everyday if you'd like. All you have to
do is throw in a little Marxist insight from time to time. This would be
like coating a bitter pill with something sweet. There must be some little
hidden compartment in your brain where there is still a lingering interest
in Marxism. Doug Henwood asked people the other day about what they thought
of Mezsaros. You told me privately that you liked his work. Of course, this
was in the context of some nasty crack you were making about an ongoing m-i
thread. 

I wonder what interests you nowadays besides the burning issue of how to
defeat the Stalin cult that is sweeping the planet. I can't blame you. This
*is* the most pressing question for the left. While strolling back back to
my office after lunch, I noticed a huge Stalin rally on the lawn at
Columbia. A thousand or so students wearing hammer-and-sickle armbands were
carrying a huge banner of Stalin just like one of those Mayday parades from
the late 1940s. A really scary sight. I saw about a dozen of these students
then chase Edward Said down Broadway shaking their fists at him. "Renounce
postcolonialism or die!!", they shouted.





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