From: Zeynep Tufekcioglu <zeynept-AT-turk.net>
Subject: M-I: Re: 
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:25:34 +0300


The board of moderators do not pass judgement on who's "progressive" and who
is not, unless there is a serious violation of list rules. 

By the way, this is the second time I posted the same message. The first
time, Gerry Levy had asked the Stalinists to go to the Leninlist, and I
posted the same message. Nobody objected then.

Every keyboard has a delete key. I suggest they save their energy to use
that key instead of throwing a tantrum and save their anger for other
worthwhile causes. Neither you nor Gary threw one tenth the same tantrum
when other list members called for an icepick trap for Levy, or asked for
all my bones to be broken. I repeat; delete Utica Rose and whoever else
annoys you. This is *not* a closed list.

Zeynep
-moderator-

At 16:04 1/4/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>Zeynep, defending "Utica Rose's" participation:
>
>"A number of list subscibers have made similar comments in the past, though
>not directed at the same political stripe and with various degrees of
>hostility. I would like to remind everyone that this is an open list and all
>revolutionary and progressive people are welcome, as long as they follow the
>basic guidelines stipulated in the rules. Statements suggesting anything to
>the contrary are not welcome here."
>
>
>Louis:
>
>Maybe I'm missing something, but this is the sort of thing that Utica Rose
>says on a daily basis:
>
>"for folks who are presumably in support of confiscating inheritances, watch
>them carefully tend their own patrimony. the marx-engels-lenin-stalin-mao
>crowd are nothing other than working class patriarchs. their Authority drapes
>a shroud over the murders, betrayals, persecutions and prosecutions of
>workers, students, intellectuals and progressives. their fellow travellers
>have a cottage industry of prevarications and outright lights to defend the
>shroud."
>
>
>I find nothing "progressive" about this. This is plain old fashioned
>red-baiting. Not only is it not progressive, it violates the list rule to
>make an "Active effort to keep repetions to a minimum." Not only is "Utica
>Rose" a disgusting red-baiter, it does nothing but repeat this kind of
>red-baiting garbage day in and day out without let-up. The notion that
>"Utica Rose" is a progressive, to put it bluntly, is a crock of shit. Zeynep
>goes out of her way to make "Utica Rose" feel at home, while people like
>Gary McLennan flee in disgust.
>
>Currently we have an unmoderated list and a sadly unmoderated one at that.
>It is only moderated when Zeynep finds some time to put in the effort. Jon
>Flanders meanwhile seems to have zero interest in the health of the list.
>For a couple of months Zeynep posted once a month and now it seems to be
>Jon's turn. I wonder if one of our problems is that we have a board of
>moderators who apparently lack consensus on some basic issues. I wonder if
>Louis G. would consider "Utica Rose" a "progressive". If "Utica Rose" is a
>progressive, then the term lacks meaning except in an Orwellian sense.
>
>By the way, if you want to take a look at how a list should be moderated,
>take a look at PEN-L. Michael Perlman is engaged with list threads on a
>day-to-day basis. He helps to steer the discussion and does a fine job of
>it. He doesn't disappear for a month at a time.
>
>Yesterday I opened my inbox and found the usual rants from Rahul and Jerry
>Levy (the George Orwell twins) and Utica Rose. Even after the nasty
>"Stalinists" have fled, we are left with their residual bleating about
>Stalinism. On top of that we got the usual crap from Malecki and Rodwell.
>
>I regard it as a slap in the face to this list to hear Zeynep describe
>"Utica Rose" as a "progressive". I don't miss Mark Jones or Adolfo, but if
>we are going to end up with a mailing-list that can't make distinctions
>between the red-baiter "Utica Rose" and genuine progressives, we are in deep
>shit.
>
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>



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