From: Zeynep Tufekcioglu <zeynept-AT-turk.net>
Subject: Re: M-I: Re: fiascos. YES to louis g
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:22:35 +0300


I agree with Carrol and Louis (G). I find it healthier for a mailing list to
have its subscribers filter out whatever they want to filter out. There is
no reason everyone has to read and/or respond to every thread and/or
contributor.

As for a closed list, if it works as the editorial board of a magazine
would, fine. It wouldn't serve the purpose of an open mailing list, but,
there is no "exclusion" clause in cyberspace. Any number of forums can
exist. I have a lot of suspicion that "academician" types would contribute
even to such a list. In any case, I don't see why other people's posts
should stop anyone from posting intelligently, if they wish to. 

As for the point of all Stalinists going off to other lists, I must say all
we can provide is a list in which everyone can post, provided they follow
the rules. That includes Stalinists. Such an environment, we do provide. If
it takes excluding a political current, this is not the list. The current
Leninlist members left amidst cries for expelling Andrew Austin, because of
remarks he made about Stalin. I don't see how capitulating to such petulant
behaviour makes for a non-sectarian environment. I also think many of the
calls for expulsion of other people are groundless.

Zeynep


>    (still in mehitabel mode) I have seen no better summing up of the
>essential parameters of any maillist than that of louis g copied
>below. i rather suspect that any maillist designed to keep out
>anyone's favorite junk poster will also be a dead list.
>
>    Carrol
>>
>>
>>
>> The truth is,  people "succeed" or "fail" in cyberspace for much the same
>> reasons they do in real life.    A mailing list,  regardless of how
>> carefully constructed or judiciously moderated,  is still,  after all,  only
>> a mailing list.    It exists for the exchange of ideas,  to meet new people,
>> and,  in the best of all worlds,  to unite the possibilities of cyberspace
>> with reality.
>>
>> Period.
>>
>> Marxism-international cannot collectively atone for all the warts and
>> idiocies exhibited by its individual members.   It cannot by itself animate
>> dysfunctional people or ideas,  ameliorate the pain of lost youth,  nor
>> render the mundane compelling.     It cannot,  sadly,  relieve us of the
>> tiresome obligation to think for ourselves or to take responsibility for our
>> mistakess.    Marxism-international is here precisely for the reasons
>> outlined in its prospectus.
>>
>> No more,  no less.
>>
>> It may well be that those who people our little corner of Spoons have
>> temporarily run out of ideas or the energy to exposit them,  or both.
>> And,  of course,  there are always the lurking demands of real life.    At
>> times like this,  yes, we do get more from those whose contributions run to
>> the rote, the mundane,  the rehearsed,  day-in,  day-out,  regardless of the
>> topic,  those for whom it is a question of too much time and too little
>> common sense.    So be it.   Nature abhors a vacuum,  does it not?
>>
>> I wish Lou Proyect well.   Same for Gary,  Scott and whoever.   It may well
>> be that a "closed" list (or at least one more closely moderated) will
>> provide them with a forum with which they can feel at home.   I must confess
>> to never having read Ginsberg,  Ellen Wood,  or *Monthly Review*.    Add
>> this to that ever - lengthening manifest of books,  magazines and people
>> that will never make my acqaintance,  to the detriment of both of us,  I am
>> sure.    I am not sure what a mailing list based on any of them would look
>> like.    Not much like ours,  I would assume.
>>
>> In the meantime,  I for one do not see much future in personalities or lists
>> or parties who count as one of their main tasks the speedy expulsion of
>> dissentient personalities or ideas.    I,  too,  am a believer in the
>> precepts governing Rousseau's General Will -- the good of the majority.
>> Individualism is an oligarchic doctrine.    Nevertheless,
>> marxism-international will continue as an open list with a minimal set of
>> rules that facilitate discussion along lines determined largely *by the
>> participants themselves*.    We will never exist merely to provide vicarious
>> satisfaction for those whose main focus is on their "enemies" on this or any
>> other list and whose main goal in politics is tje winning of  pyrrhic
>> "victories" over the ghosts of their former selves.
>>
>> Louis Godena,
>> moderator
>>
>>
>>
>>      --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>>
>
>
>
>     --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>



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