From: "ricardo" <davidb-AT-ak.planet.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: M-I: Goodbye Godena and Co
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:57:42 +1300


Goodbye Godena, Proyect, Henwood and anybody else who is unprincipled
enough to hang around this rotten list,

The hypocritical posturing of Godena the stalinist commisar of
menshevik-international is too much for me to stomach after a year of
participating in this list.  I refuse to participate any further on the
terms that Godena has now set in his personal, idiosyncratic and
bureaucratic fashion.  Godena and I have had some debates on this list.
Usually, I have taken him to task for his arrogance towards the working
class, typical of the US labor aristocrat he admits to being,and of a
member of a stalinist party who has not broken with that parties record of
betrayals of the working class. Gay's craven submission to Godena's
interpretation of the rules, and Dennis silence speaks volumes to me about
the degeneracy of this list. 

Nor do I want to continue any discussions with individuals while they
continue on this list. Ignorance of the history of this list is no excuse.
And that goes for Rakesh and Jim Blaut who have interesting things to say.
There is the archive record for those who can be bothered to check for
themselves. Menshevik-international should be left to rot into the dustbin
of history in the same way that the Stalin list disintegrated in a flurry
of name-calling. 

I endorse James comments below. Here is someone relatively new to this list
who is not identified as a Trotskyist, and respected by most as an
intelligent and knowledgable marxist. Godena tried to win him over, but
James latest (below) shows that he has got Godena's number.  It is obvious
to anyone but Godena, Proyect and their band of  yankee-doodle dilettantes,
that Levy and Malecki have been purged for their politics. As far as I am
concerned any marxist who had a once of self-respect would not be seen
anywhere near this list. And I will not be associated with anyone who is.

Dave [for permanent revolution, and on this list!].

Louis Godena writes:
 
> James H writes:
> 
> 
> >The discussion over the suspensions from the MI list demonstrates that
> >no principle informs the suspensions, and no clarification arises from
> >them. Since the suspensions all those that supported the action have
> >been locked into vituperative exchanges without any political content
> >whatsoever with the suspended - either shadow-boxing here, or sniping on
> >other lists like Marxism-thaxis.
> 
> 
> James, there has been virtually no discussion of the m-i suspensions on
> marxism-international itself, though quite a number of you have seen fit
to
> either e-mail me personally, or to cc' pertinent (and unwanted)
discussions
> from other lists to myself and the other moderators.  I said all I was
going
> to on this matter several days ago, and I know that Gay's excellent
riposte
> put the matter to rest, as far as we are concerned.
> 
> I should say that, seven days having expired, Hugh Rodwell and Dave
Bedggood
> have been restored to posting privileges on m-i.  They should bear in
mind
> that the list is *not* a forum for personal grievances or for the acting
out
> of the vagaries of one's personal idiosyncracies or dementia.  Any future
> behavior of this type, and I promise they will be gone for good. 
> 
> James continues with this bit of tom-foolery:
> 
> >In particular the self-appointed psychiatric faculty are keen to make a
> >diagnosis Bob Malecki. You ought to re-read some of your own posts some
> >time. What are we to make of anyone who is preoccupied with what Bob
> >Malecki has to say? That they are on the same level as he is, and are in
> >no position to patronise him. Again the question that cries out to be
> >answered is what has been clarified? So far, nothing.
> 
> 
> I have *never*, to the best of my recollection, answered Malecki directly
> since this list began.  I do know that virtually every list that has come
> from jefferson village has had a "no Malecki" clause appended to it,
sooner
> or later.  In our own case, we tolerated him far beyond what is
reasonable
> to expect of functional adults.  This is his second suspension.  And his
last.
> 
> And allow me a word about his charge of *who* "developed"
> marxism-international.  First of all, I have posted more stuff to this
list
> than any of the other four moderators *combined* and *multiplied*, on
> virtually every country in the world, and on quite a variety of topics. 
I
> have never tried to recruit anyone to my *minute*, addled sect or to any
> bogus ideology or to any five-member vanguards which multiply like
> conspiracy theories in a lunatic asylum.  In fact, Malecki came on to
> marxism-international largely because *I* argued that *no one* should be
> excluded; there was a substantial body of opinion that he should stay on
> marxism-general and nowhere else (see, for example, the thread entitled,
by
> Adam Rose, I think, "Expel Nutters early and often").  And, remember,
> Malecki couldn't stand Zeynep and Jon when they were the moderators and
the
> feeling, believe me, was mutual.  Now, he is pining for the "good ole'
days"
> when he was allowed to exhibit himself without fear or favor.  
> 
> Asshole.
> 
> James, marxism-international remains a forum where sensible, functional
> adults can discuss *anything* within the realm of politics.  That
includes
> basic challenges to all the sacred cows currently browsing in the pasture
of
> the contemporary Left.  No one will be disciplined for exploring issues
of
> anti-Semitism, fascism, homophobia, sexism, or anything else that
approaches
> their subject from a progressive direction.  What is not tolerated is the
> personal dementia and the venting of visceral prejudice that led,
> ultimately, to situation you now lament.
> 
> Louis Godena,
> co-moderator
> 
> 
> 
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