File spoon-archives/marxism-international.archive/marxism-international_1998/marxism-international.9801, message 449


From: oebgdk-AT-blackbox.at (Lorenz Glatz)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:31:22 +0100
Subject: Re: M-I: "that sentence about relations of production becoming a fetter"


Lorenz Glatz, Austrian, new in this list


CARROL:
>A major fault of Marx's. He wrote that sentence about relations of
>production becoming a fetter on the forces of production, and even
though
>that concept is in contradiction to the whole thrust of his work (it
gives
>a mechanically determinist view of history), he kept saying things off
and
>on which give modern technological determinists ammunition.

REED
>So let the discussion begin!

BEN:
>In my opinion, "that sentence" by Marx represents the essence of
>Marxism.
>The reason, in my view, that the overthrow of bourgeois rule is
>inevitable--is that bourgeois rule (and the capitalist relations which
>are inseparable from it) will inevitably become a greater and greater
>drag
>on the development of the productivity of labor (productivity being
>defined
>in terms of the creation of tangible and intangible goods, services,
>science
>and culture that are of real benefit to the entire population).


Though CARROL 
>doubts that this is the sort of issue that can be 
>profitably discussed by e-mail
and though actually nobody posted anything on this matter since then
I'd like to make three remarks on the issue:

1. At least the feudal relations of production were indeed "a fetter on
the forces of production", that had to be destroyed by the young
capitalist classes.

2. Ben's "creation of tangible and intangible goods, services, science
and culture that are of real benefit to the entire population" in my
opinion isn't Marx's concept of productivity. Capitalism in fact is
"condemned" to ever developping more and stronger forces of production
out of its very nature, but these forces more and more turn out to be
the opposite of "real benefit to the entire population", to be
productive in terms of profit but destructive in every other sense.
Maybe this is the special kind of "fetter" capitalism puts on the
forces of production, a "fetter" that has to be destroyed in this
period of history.

3. I think Ben is right to declare "that sentence" to be essential in
Marx's thought. Not only in the meaning of a real perspective - the
historical end of capitalism - but also in a sense that establishing
socialism needs not only revolutionary efforts but also highly
developped forces of production. I dare saying if we take measure in
Marx's words (e.g. in "Kritik des Gothaer Programms" [sorry I' have
never read what the title is in English]), we haven't seen any
socialism so far. 

I hope I could make me understood, but I've learned much more Latin and
Greek than English in my young days.




-- 

***********************Black*Box Online Community***********************
* palazzo - die virtuelle Bastelwelt | http://www.blackbox.at/palazzo/ *
************************************************************************
Black*Box FirstClass BBS: +43-1-4073132 (Modem) | http://www.blackbox.at


     --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

   

Driftline Main Page

 

Display software: ArchTracker © Malgosia Askanas, 2000-2005