File spoon-archives/marxism-international.archive/marxism-international_1998/marxism-international.9804, message 66


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:24:19 -0700
From: David Stevens <phylstevens-AT-worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re M-I: For a culture of scientific discussion (Ben replies to Proyect)


"Ben Seattle" <icd-AT-communism.org> must take Louis Proyect
more seriously than anyone else in the Universe, including
even Proyect himself.

> In particular, I emphasized, great effort must be
> made to avoid mischaracterizing the views of others
> (ie: building straw men), which I noted was the favorite
> tool of charlatans everywhere.
> 
> Now, as a result of this I have come into contradiction with
> Louis Proyect.

 Well, yes.  What else did you expect, after you insisted
he empty his polemical toolbox?

> In particular, it is clear to me, from observing this forum,
> that Louis's attitudes are more-or-less representative of
> the attitudes of a fairly broad section of the active
> participants here.  The struggle against reformism does not
> have a very good name to many or most on this list.

 Trotsky once observed that sectarianism is merely
opportunism standing in fear of itself.  One can 
therefore say that Proyect is fearless ;-) relative
to a fellow like Malecki, even as Louis advocates the
political posture of utter obeisance to the capitalist
state (e.g., pleading for Federal troops to Mississippi,
blocs with "good" imperialists like Vance Hartke).
Whether or not it's fruitful is a different question.

 It's representative of what news:alt.politics.socialism.trotsky
dubs "Proyectile" methodology that Louis not only identifies
the struggle against reformism as "sectarian," but that his
arguments are spurious ad-hominems regarding "organizers."
Proyect, after three decades of chasing Least Common Denominator
will-o-the-wisps, has but one thing to show for it: thirty years
of "organizing" which have left him with no organization.

> My "credentials" are mainly irrelevant.  I would advise
> Louis to try to keep the focus of discussion on what is
> really important.

 I would advise Ben Seattle -- and anyone else interested in
serious political dialogue -- not to expect Louis Proyect to
avoid _ad hominem_ arguments, spurious analogies, or outright
misrepresentation whenever he thinks they suit his purpose.

> I emerged, essentially alone, with the view that the
> communications revolution will transform the progressive and
> communist movements in what will turn out to be the ultimate
> nightmare for the bourgeoisie.  My "cyberLeninism" site can
> be found at www.Leninism.org.  Whether I am afflicted with
> the disease of sectarianism--readers will be able to judge
> for themselves.

 Well, originally you did register your site to the
non-sectarian Marxist webring "Commie Ring" (tm), but
you never even finished your homework.  On 26 June 1998,
I sent you the HTML code to link to the ring, but you
never installed it.  But I don't attribute that to
sectarianism, so much as a skewed sense of priorities. 

 Those who are interested in our non-sectarian ring
of communist websites can browse it themselves from:
http://home.att.net/~phylstevens/commie/sample.html

 Technical details are at:
http://home.att.net/~phylstevens/commie/details.txt

 Self-registration [Ben already did this part] at:
http://home.att.net/~phylstevens/commiering.html

 Some of my favorite sites include:

[*] "The Commodity Fetish Times"
    http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/9973/

[*] "Karl Marx in Bad Kreuznach"
    http://www.net-art.de/krhein/marx.htm
    (n.b., This is the official Commie Ring site
    for celebrations of Valentine's Day)

[*] "Marxist Worker Online" [ex-Detroit WoVo]
    http://www.geocities.com/~marxistworker/    

[*] "Voice of the Rebel Worker"
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5202/ 

[*] "The Left in Luxembourg"
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KPLLUX/

[*] "The Spirit of '17"
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/6482/index-4.html

[*] "ˇPalante!" [página de la Resistencia Redskin]
    http://members.tripod.com/~Pakito/index.html  

[*] "Stec's Commie Pink Home Page"
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7078/commie.html

[*] "Mactyler's Communist Haven"
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4842/com.htm
[*] "The Commodity Fetish Times"
    http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/9973/

[*] "Karl Marx in Bad Kreuznach"
    http://www.net-art.de/krhein/marx.htm
    n.b., official <a.p.s.t.> Valentine's Day site!

[*] "Marxist Worker Online" [ex-Detroit WoVo]
    http://www.geocities.com/~marxistworker/    

[*] "Voice of the Rebel Worker"
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5202/ 

[*] "The Left in Luxembourg"
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KPLLUX/

[*] "The Spirit of '17"
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/6482/index-4.html

[*] "ˇPalante!" [página de la Resistencia Redskin]
    http://members.tripod.com/~Pakito/index.html  

[*] "Stec's Commie Pink Home Page"
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7078/commie.html

[*] "Mactyler's Communist Haven"
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4842/com.htm
 
- David Stevens, speaking for my own sectarian self, 
                 not for the non-sectarian Commie Ring
                 http://home.att.net/~phylstevens/commiering.html


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