Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:50:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Spoon Collective <spoons-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: M-INTRO: marxism space closing--PLEASE READ


To all participants in the marxism space:

As is now well-known, the spoon collective has decided to stop hosting 
the marxism space and its associated lists (marxism-and-sciences, 
marxism-feminism, marxism-general, marxism-international, marxism-intro, 
marxism-news, marxism-psych, marxism-thaxis, and marxism-theory).  We are 
encouraging and helping to facilitate the move of these lists to new servers.

The spoon collective initiated the marxism lists in 1993 with the single 
list, "marxism."  marxism2 was created a little later, and in 1996 the 
marxism space was constructed, and with it the current number of marxism 
lists.

The context of this decision is that the spoon collective has been 
reevaluating all its current projects and future direction.  In the 
course of this stock-taking it has
become clear to us that we have neither the means nor the desire for an 
indefinite maintenance of our current lists.  We are a small group of 
volunteers, and do not have the capability for maintenance and expansion 
that a commercial service organization would have. We are perfectly 
placed to support short-term projects and to initiate and facilitate 
long-term projects, but not to nourish and maintain them indefinitely.  
We feel therefore that we should concentrate our energies on such 
short-term projects or on working with the initial phases of what may 
later (and elsewhere) prove to become long-term projects.

Consequently, we are starting a process of moving most of our lists out 
of Virginia and our care, and into the care of others.  We also regard 
this as a test of the true usefulness of our current lists: those that 
don't inspire in anybody a desire to take responsibility for their 
continuation are obviously not worth continuing.  We will, of course, 
help in the necessary transitions as much as we can.  

With respect specifically to the marxism lists, these obviously figure 
among our longest commitments.  Moreover, most of these lists clearly 
have the capabilities (and sufficient interest from subscribers) to 
become more autonomous projects.

We would like to make clear that our view of and decision regarding the 
marxism lists have *not* been substantially affected by any legal 
maneuverings that may be currently in process.  In the volatile world of 
internet discussion (relatively uncharted by the various national and 
international legal systems), we regard the occasional threat of legal 
action as simply par for the course.

It has however become increasingly apparent over time that the political 
temperament and agendas of these lists have diverged from those of the 
majority of the spoon collective.  Yet we have continued to perform most 
of the technical support for the marxism space.  Thus most of our 
collective energies are expended in the technical aspects of running 
these lists rather than in active discussion.  In this sense, having to 
maintain these lists constitutes an obstacle to our strong desire to 
engage with Marx and with Marxism.  Yet if anything, for most of us our 
involvement with the marxism space has strengthened rather than 
diminished this desire to see the spoon collective's project as an 
unmistakably political one that would be allied with the Marxist 
tradition.  Still we unfortunately find ourselves positioned with our 
current marxism lists especially as overseers rather than as 
participants.  It is precisely this relation and this position that, in 
reevaluating our role with our lists more generally, we wish to avoid.

We believe therefore that transferring the operation of these lists 
elsewhere, to the care of other groups that might be closer to the lists' 
current political temperament and agendas--or to organizations who are 
happy to take on the role of technical overseers--can only be beneficial 
both to those on the lists and to the spoon collective.  Moreover, we 
very much hope that such a move will be beneficial for the discussion of 
Marxism on the internet in general.

We are pleased at the success of the marxism lists over these past five 
years.  In 1993 the opportunities for the discussion and debate of 
Marxism on the internet were severely limited.  Now, thanks in part but 
not only to the spoon collective's marxism lists, there are a number of 
vibrant and energetic communities of marxist discussion.

Regarding the specific details of the transition of the marxism lists 
from the Virginia server to other servers, it has become clear in the 
last few days that these may and will vary from list to list.  We are 
working with individual list moderators to help facilitate what they and 
their list-members consider the most appropriate ways to handle the 
decisions necessary.  Therefore some lists may be closed earlier than 
others.  However, we expect that all the marxism lists will be gone from 
the Virginia server within a month (i.e. by May 23rd 1998).

At the same time, we are very pleased with the fact that it seems that a 
whole new set of lists and discussion fora will be created as a result of 
these developments.  We wish all those initiatives well.  We would like 
to be able to direct those visiting our webpages towards these new lists, 
as well as towards the new homes of what have been the spoon collective's 
marxism lists.  We hope that the new moderators and new organizers will 
help us with this, just as we aim to help them in whatever ways we can.

At present (April 23rd) marxism-international and marxism-and-sciences 
have already been re-established on a server at Emory University.  It 
seems some of the other lists will also be moving fairly shortly.

For information on developments, please either check out the marxism 
space webpage (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/marxism/) or 
subscribe to a new list, marxism-transition, which will also be a 
clearing house for information and suggestions relating to this 
transition.  To subscribe, send the message

subscribe marxism-transition

to majordomo-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Finally, the spoon collective's hosting of the marxism lists has made for 
a long relationship with many thousands of people on the internet.  It 
has been tempestuous at times, but also fruitful and productive.  We 
would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who have helped in 
this endeavor, and to thank also those who will continue it elsewhere.  
Here we would particularly thank Hans Ehrbar, who joined the spoon 
collective as a result of his involvement in the marxism lists, and who 
has done much both for these lists and for the collective.  Hans has now 
resigned from spoon, in part to continue fostering the discussion of 
Marxism on the internet in other ways.

Take care

Jon
for the spoon collective





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