From: SPARTAKIST-AT-pseud.pseud
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:14:34 MDT
Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Patriotism
I have been reading about patriotism in this list for a while. Some
people-I do not remember now who it were- touched implicitly a
very important issue: wht we understand from patriotism.
I have no problem with patriotism when we define and justify it
against imperialism as it happened after the WW I against
imperialists (i.e., France, England, Italy, and Greece) which
invaded my native country. However, I have a problem with it when
it is defined and justified just for the sake of the future of military-
dominated capitalist state of my country against an ethnic group
(i.e., Kurds) which has been under oppression for years.
I am sorry but I will not buy anybody's patriotism defined and
justified on the basis of the interests of an imperialist, oppressive,
and capitalist state. [I do not have to say that I am not approving
what happened on Sept. 11].
Best regards
From: rodeo-AT-pseud.pseud
To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Patriotism
Date sent: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:59:43 -0700
Send reply to: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> I agree with Cookieman and Kapitalism.
>
>
> >From: cookieman-AT-pseud.pseud
> >Reply-To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> >To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> >Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Patriotism
> >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:56:31 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >I agree with what Kapitalism has said in response to
> >Redbren. I would just add to his comments by asking a
> >question. Do you think the fact that the United States
> >founders were religious people and had left their
> >homeland seeking greater freedoms has anything to do
> >with the fact that we do stick our noses into other
> >country's problems and fight for their religious
> >freedoms? I believe the United States to be one of the
> >few countries founded on a religious background, and
> >believe that those founders beliefs are still
> >reflected to some degree in our country's actions.
> >
> >--- Kapitalism-AT-pseud.pseud wrote:
> >
> ><HR>
> ><html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
> ><P>Redbren has the right to their opinion. What
> >they do not understand is that pride starts in one's
> >home, in one's yard, in one's school, and place of
> >work, etc. Then it spreads to what makes it
> >possible to have the pride they have. That pride
> >is provided for by the United States our particular
> >situation (or another nation that makes it safe to
> >have a business, school, or home). Sure there is
> >jingoism and corruption, but there is no other place
> >on the planet that allows one to be as safe, live as
> >well, or to seek as much access. As for
> >patriotism casuing problems, that is nonsense.
> >If it wasn't a larger nation, it would be smaller
> >groups of people disliking one another (like rogue
> >gangs in Africa and Afghanistan). It just so
> >happens that these larger groups have now transformed
> >into larger nations that share common cultures,
> >people, beliefs, currencies, and goals. I wish
> >the argument for the problem was as simplistic as
> >Redbren has stated. Unfortunately, humans are
> >much more complex than that and just because it is the
> >United States really doesn't make a difference.
> >Finally, the reason why the United States is playing
> >world cop or is constantly involved in places like
> >Ireland, Korea, Israel, China, Afghanistan, etc. is
> >that this nation has an interest in defending human
> >rights and promoting democracy. Does this mean
> >we have our downfalls, yes, but there is no other
> >country or group of people that is equiped to handle
> >the situation. Moreover, the people that make
> >this nation up consist of every nationality on this
> >planet, so they have an interest in resolving conflict
> >in their homeland. If it was not a country, it
> >would be where their home is or where they came
> >from. To use an example, the Taliban don't have
> >any true borders and they are still an unresolved
> >issue.<BR><BR></P></DIV>
> ><DIV></DIV>
> ><DIV></DIV>>From: CSM-AT-pseud.pseud
> ><DIV></DIV>>Reply-To:
> >marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> ><DIV></DIV>>To:
> >marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> ><DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Patriotism
> ><DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:32:56 -0800
> >(PST)
> ><DIV></DIV>>
> ><DIV></DIV>>Redbren is right. Americans do feel and
> >think they are
> ><DIV></DIV>>more superior to other nations. Why you
> >ask, because
> ><DIV></DIV>>we are. The United States is the most
> >powerful nation
> ><DIV></DIV>>in the world. Our military is the most
> >powerful
> ><DIV></DIV>>military presents ever to be known in
> >the history of
> ><DIV></DIV>>the world. And every nation out there
> >knows this. That
> ><DIV></DIV>>is why whenever there is some sort of
> >crisis in the
> ><DIV></DIV>>political or economic world arena
> >everyone looks to
> ><DIV></DIV>>see what the U.S. will do. It would be
> >interesting to
> ><DIV></DIV>>watch the world crumble if the United
> >States took the
> ><DIV></DIV>>approach of an isolationist country and
> >did not do
> ><DIV></DIV>>anything for all these poor pitiful
> >nations. That is
> ><DIV></DIV>>what I am proud of, awesome power. By
> >the way
> ><DIV></DIV>>Redbren,how are your buddies in the
> >Taliban doing
> ><DIV></DIV>>today?
> ><DIV></DIV>>
> ><DIV></DIV>>__________________________________________________
> >
> ><DIV></DIV>>Do You Yahoo!?
> ><DIV></DIV>>Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web
> >site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> ><DIV></DIV>>http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> ><DIV></DIV>>
> ><DIV></DIV>>
> ><DIV></DIV>> --- from list
> >marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> ><DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE
> >download of MSN Explorer at <a
> >href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>
> >
> >
> > --- from list
> >marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> >http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> >
> >
> > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
> --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
--- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
Display software: ArchTracker © Malgosia Askanas, 2000-2005