File spoon-archives/marxism-intro.archive/marxism-intro_2001/marxism-intro.0112, message 28


From: Barney-AT-pseud.pseud
Subject: Re: M-INTRO: a 'free' country
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:29:06 -0700


If greed is intrisic, like you say it is, wouldn't people be greedy under 
any system of government or in any economic system? Yes they would. About 
people that go to jail, they are in jail because they make a decision, 
either consciously or subconsciously to not conform to society. I think 
people that have drug problems do need help, but since drug use offten goes 
hand in hand with other activities that endanger the public drug users 
should still be put in jail.


>From: Sicilia-AT-pseud.pseud
>Reply-To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Subject: Re: M-INTRO: a 'free' country
>Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:50:15 -0500
>
>This talk about freedom, the huge prisoner population in America, etc. is
>one of my favorite topics.  I have a few things to add to what has already
>been said by those today.
>First, Huricane, Capitalism feeds off greed.  This greed causes many of the
>problems we are talking about.  Nearly every good thing has a bad aspect
>that people seem to find and they exploit it to the max.  In this case, it
>is greed.  How many people have you heard say I'll keep only what I need, I
>give to charity, I'll help the poor, it never works for the most because
>greed gets in the way.
>I totally agree with Tamar_Herzberg and Mulambo on your aspects of 
>prisoners
>and the jail system.  I have always wondered why drug abusers are in jail
>instead of rehab.  It makes no sense whatsoever.
>What I have noticed and have read in reports and studies is that a major
>problem in prison and crime life today is the repeat offender.  We lock
>people up and when they have finished serving their time we release them
>with no real chance of making anything of themselves.  No one is going to
>employ them with a record, no one is going to trust them and they are
>released with hardly anything.  So what do they resort to to make it--more
>crime and the cycle repeats.  I don't think our crime numbers are due to 
>our
>freedoms as was mentioned, but due to our system itself.  There are few 
>that
>are truly given a chance to suceed once they are out of prison.
>
>
>>From: MULAMBO-AT-pseud.pseud
>>Reply-To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>>Subject: Re: M-INTRO: a 'free' country
>>Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:32:56 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>>
>>
>>isn't the vast majority of crimes committed done so in the sphere of
>>private property law and a moralistic civil order?  isn't private property
>>a social construction enacted so as to criminalize a whole section of
>>society (the enclosures movement)?  why is drug addiction treated as a
>>criminal problem rather than a medical or physical or mental one?  in
>>whose interest is it that we jail instead of rehabilate?
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 Breakaway-AT-pseud.pseud wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > In response to Tamar_Herzberg, i would like to say that there are a lot
>> > of reasons why America has so many criminals, but i would like to
>> > introduce the idea that a lot of the criminal activity could be caused
>>by
>> > the abuse of freedom which Americans enjoy.  I'm not saying that this 
>>is
>> > a huge cause of criminal activity, for there are many reasons, but
>>rather
>> > would like to hear what others think about that idea.  There have been
>> > some discussions about freedom and patriotism, and i wonder if people
>> > (criminals) have some kind of inflated concept about these things that
>> > may cause them to act in such a way that it is criminal.  What do you
>> > think?
>> >
>> > >From: Tamar_Herzberg-AT-pseud.pseud
>> > >Reply-To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>> > >To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>> > >Subject: Re: M-INTRO: a 'free' country
>> > >Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:51:27 +0000 (GMT)
>> > >
>> > >I agree that people who committed crimes must pay a
>> > >price. Your agrument may sound right, since in every
>> > >country you have a deviant lot - I just read about
>> > >prisoners in Greenland...
>> > >
>> > >However, doesn't it appeal strange to you that the US
>> > >has such a high level of prisoners - the highest rate
>> > >in the world?
>> > >
>> > >Is the US more violent than other nations? Are
>> > >Americans more prone to be criminals than other
>> > >nations? If the answer for that is "yes", there must
>> > >be reasons. Maybe the culture sucks. Maybe schools
>> > >suck more than in other countries. Maybe it wasn't
>> > >Australia, but America, where all the criminals went
>> > >to.
>> > >
>> > >Is it a coincidence that most criminals are from poor
>> > >background, low education (including many who can't
>> > >read and write - and were born in America), many
>> > >Blacks? I bet many of them are single mothers (if they
>> > >are female prisoners) or children of single mothers.
>> > >
>> > >I'd say that there's a dierct link between the lack of
>> > >social policies in the US and the fact that there's so
>> > >many criminals.
>> > >
>> > >In other words, it's not the American people, or their
>> > >culture, that sucks. It's capitalism.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- hurricane-AT-pseud.pseud wrote: > I like this topic
>> > >of a "free" country. Everyone has
>> > > > brought up some
>> > > > interesting points. I think we need to remember
>> > > > with freedom comes
>> > > > responsibility. We do have a lot of people that are
>> > > > probably serving
>> > > > prision sentences that are too much for the crimes
>> > > > they commited, but we
>> > > > should remember that they are still crimes that need
>> > > > punishment. Not all
>> > > > prison is for rehabilitation, there has to be some
>> > > > punishment for crimes.
>> > > >
>> > > > I understand that rehabilitation is necessary to
>> > > > help people change their
>> > > > lives, but we cannot overlook the criminal acts that
>> > > > got these people in the
>> > > > criminal justice system in the first place.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >====>> > >Manager of http://www.political-tips.com - Political Tips - your 
>>source
>> > for political information
>> > >Moderator of http://www.delphi.com/lt_political - The Political Tips
>> > Forum and of http://www.delphi.com/sperts - Sperts New Home
>> > >Administrator of http://www.topica.com/lists/relsocpol - RelSocPol -
>> > discussion group
>> > >
>> > >________________________________________________________________
>> > >Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great.
>> > >Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it!
>> > >The competition ends 16 th of December 2001.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>> >
>> >
>>________________________________________________________________________________
>> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>"There can be no doubt about the task
>>  confronting us at present:- a ruthless
>>  criticism of the existing order...  that
>>  will shrink neither from its own discoveries
>>  nor from conflict with the powers that be".
>>             Karl Marx 1843.
>>
>>
>>
>>      --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>
>
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