Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:25:01 -0800 (PST)
From: The_Kailua_Kid-AT-pseud.pseud
Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Right on GDA


The socialist societies that preceded us in history
were not true socialist societies. Many of them were
socialist in name only. The socialist/communist
regimes I presume you are referring to, such as the
Soviet Union and it's satellite states, were more
authoritarian, and had to resort to central planning
because they didn't have sufficient means of
production. In some cases the means of production
weren't truly owned by the workers, as bsw8 stated in
his contribution to this topic, they were controlled
by those in positions of political power. The lack of
sufficient means of production was one of the
contributing factors to the collapse of these
"socialist" states.

It is possible, however, to have a socialist country
and enjoy a high standard of living. The HDI mentioned
in Raleigh's message on Nov. 14th is a good gage of
countries that have a high living standard. Sweden,
Norway, and Denmark are all socialist democracies, and
they each have high standard of living, and
consequently are near the top of the HDI index.
 
--- GDA-AT-pseud.pseud wrote:
> What do you think happened with socialists societies
> before us?  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <The_Kailua_Kid-AT-pseud.pseud>
> To: <marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Right on GDA
> 
> 
> > In response to baseball's comments:
> > 
> > It'd be great if we could improve our current
> system,
> > but that's not likely to happen when the rich
> wield so
> > much lobbying power in our government. Like a tick
> > that just digs in deeper to maintain it's
> position,
> > the capitalists will fight to maintain the status
> quo,
> > or further tip the scales in their favor. Trying
> to
> > make the best of the system we have will
> eventually
> > lead to a breakdown of the system. The growing
> > disparity between rich and poor, along with the
> > gradual elimination of the middle-class, will
> > eventually set the stage for revolution. At some
> point
> > everyone who is being exploited by the capitalist
> > system will get fed up with it, and cast it off.
> > Realistically, that's the only way I can see any
> > positive change for the laborers in our country.
> > 


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