From: Desoto-AT-pseud.pseud
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:02:49 -0600
Subject: RE: M-INTRO: A couple of thoughts: Healthcare and Socialism


One of the main points in this discussion is being overlooked.  This is where
Marx's explanations of a new way of approaching the social sciences may lead to
better results.  In other words lead to some answers rather than just a whole
bunch more questions.  This point that is being overlooked is that analysis is
being based merely on observation.  Ovservation doesn't tell the whole story. 
One reason is that there is simply too much data to merely observe.  You need
to get underneath it, beyond what can merely be observed.  Often, data
collected from observation can be misleading and wrong.  The example of health
care rankings not accounting for depression is an excellent one.  Another that
may not be as easily accepted among others in this group would involve infant
mortality rates.  More than a week ago, a discussion came up about these.  The
data collected on infant mortality rates doesn't show anything beneath these
including whether or not a high abortion rate led less infants dying or
furthermore if parial-birth abortions were counted as infant deaths or not.  

Quoting bobcat-AT-pseud.pseud:

> This is certainly a tough issue.  Because money drives technological
> progress to a large extent, it's hard to argue that socialized medicine is
> the cure-all.  Besides the long waiting times for some treatment in these
> systems, doctors in socialized countries don't make as much money as they
> would in the US or often even in other careers.  This causes a terrible
> talent drain out of those countries and/or out of the medical profession.
> 
> However, the US health system is a travesty on one count in particular.
> Universal health care is necessary in this country.
> 
> I think the answer might lie in something along the lines of subsidies from
> the government.  With subsidization, those companies that currently refuse
> treatment to the poor and very sick would be able to treat these people
> without incurring prohibitive costs.  Of course, most people would be
> covered normally, but people whose care proved to be particularly expensive
> would be partially helped by tax monies.
> 
> Alternately, the government could set up one or more non-profit health
> insurance providers.  Because a non-profit organization's costs are lower,
> these entities could cover anyone who needed coverage.  As an extra wrinkle,
> they could even offer coverage to ordinary people.  Nothing would makes
> for-profit companies squirm quite as much as another "company" that has
> lower prices.  I bet this might spark a price war that could end up driving
> down health costs across the board.
> 
> Those are just some ideas that I've thought up over the years.  Hopefully
> you all have some more comments here too.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> [mailto:owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of
> DIGITS-AT-pseud.pseud
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:40 PM
> To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> Subject: M-INTRO: A couple of thoughts: Healthcare and Socialism
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate what Vasco has to say about the healthcare question.   I can't
> help
> but think of all the research that gets done in the US, and a lot of it is
> due
> to contributions of money from huge corporations.  I
> 
> I have a friend in Canada who's mother died from cancer, while she waited
> for
> over a year for her turn for treatment.  I'm sure cases like that are rare,
> but
> I think we must be careful when we consider changing the health system.
> On the other hand, we have a lot of poor people here in the US who die due
> to
> lack of healthcare providers willing to treat them.  
> 
> I wish I knew the answer.    
> 
> 
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