From: idasan-AT-pseud.pseud Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Fetishism Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:02:52 -0600 While I appreciate Kaha's passion - I don't necessarily agree that talk is cheap. The whole idea of talk is that we're communicating with each other about our current economic system. I have found other people's opinions and contributions on this list have been extremely informative and help with my overall understanding of capitalism and it's inherent flaws. To say that we should start small-like with small business is not the best idea because it perpetuates just what Kaha was complaining about - lip service. The whole problem with capitalism is that is a vicious cycle and no one would be willing to take on the risk of opening a small business in an attempt to test the finer points of communism. That person would have to take on the liability of overhead and start up costs. Why would he or she not want to reap the most capital out of such a risk? There is no incentive for someone to start a communist way of life in a capitalist society. The only incentive in our society is money - it controls us, it motivates us, and we worship it. That's why education about the system as a whole is a better place to start than a small business model. Do not underestimate the power of communication. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kaha0-AT-pseud.pseud> To: <marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 10:31 AM Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Fetishism > > I hate to hear people talking about how the world or socitey we live in is going to ruin. People are all talking about change, but when it comes down to it, that's all it is, talk. No one wants to do anything about it. In the society that we live in, people capitalize off of other people, that is why it is called capitalism. Don't get me wrong, i hate capitalism just as much as you guys, but capitalism has a huge foundation in our country. Just so you know, i'm from the US. I would like to see capitalism go just as much as you, but honestly i don't ever see that happening. All attempts that have been made to bring up a communist society have failed, and why, because humans are flawed. Flawed with jelously and greed, wanting more then the next guy. What i propose is starting out small. Like a business model. Try to bring communism into a small business. Have all of the employees paid the same. There should be no profit, all profit should go directly back to the employees. Caus > ing instead of a "universal laziness" a universal drive to accomplish. Companies would work together to try to capitalize off other companies, not employees trying to capitalize off each other. If you want to show the world that communism, or somthing similar to it, can work, you have to start out small. Actions speak louder then words. If you want a change in the world we live in, CHANGE IT, talking is overrated. > > > > > > >From: idasan-AT-pseud.pseud > > >Reply-To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > >To: <marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu> > > >Subject: Re: M-INTRO: Fetishism > > >Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:39:01 -0600 > > > > > >It would be more appropriate to say that the fetish-like quality of a > > >commodity is the property possessed by social relations. When you say > > >fetishism - that refers more to one's state of mind, that of false > > >consciousness. I don't really know where your getting that capitalists get > > >twice the pay or that laborers get half the pay - that entirely depends on > > >the situation and every capitalist gets paid according to how much they > > >decide to pay their laborers. As for price ceiling or floors - Marx doesn't > > >pay much attention to price because that is not the culprit in an exploitive > > >system - it is low wages. > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: <mopreme-AT-pseud.pseud> > > >To: <marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu> > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 4:00 PM > > >Subject: M-INTRO: Fetishism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I understand correctly the fetishism of the commodity is the social > > >aspect > > > > of the commodity. Labor employees get paid about half of the amount of > > >what a > > > > capitalist gets. In that the capitalist do half the work but get twice the > > >pay, > > > > of what the (value) of the total production. Are there price ceilings or > > >floors > > > > on what producers can actually collect on there commoditys? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Get ready for school! 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