Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:11:17 -0600 From: BIRD-AT-pseud.pseud Subject: RE: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism? I appreciate your translation of the actual number's in Kerry's proposal in to the percentage of the GNP. Big numbers are often thrown around because they "sound" unmanageable to the average person, but relative to the whole they are very small. What is often forgotten in discussions of social spending are the long term costs which are avoided by up front spending. Preventative care is always cheaper in the long run. Many who have no coverage end up using the emergency room (the most expensive form of care) as their primary source of health care. Healthy children are able to go to school and learn. This leads to a more educated population, lower crime rates, healthier workers - all pluses. While some like to believe they can cut themselves off from the rest by living in gated communities, the are only kidding themselves. All of us feel the effects of neglect of the most vulnerable. >>> bobcat-AT-pseud.pseud 10/15/2004 12:21:45 AM >>> Which is better; socialized medicine and guaranteed retirement (as in the UK or Canada), or the chance for the lucky few to get the best in both areas (as in the USA)? My questions is this: Why can't we have our cake and eat it too? In a country such as the US, this certainly should be possible. We are the richest nation in the world in GDP per capita. Our total GDP was 10.99 TRILLION last year, giving us about $37,000 each. To me, this is the worst symptom of a sick socioeconomic system: Kerry's $690 billion proposal for health care (over 10 years) is dismissed as impossible. Yet, that is only .6% of our annual GDP. How much in taxes or military spending cuts would that require? How much would the benefits be? The unwillingness of the richest country in the world to sacrifice less than 1% for the benefit of its population is, in my mind, a sign of capitalism's decadence. -----Original Message----- From: owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of tedbell-AT-pseud.pseud Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:48 PM To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU Subject: Re: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism? > Quoting SKITRAMP-AT-pseud.pseud: > >> >> Today in class we discussed how money cannot grow. Interest that is earned >> on >> money in a bank acount is money that was not distributed fairly to a worker >> who >> labored for more than was paid. >> >> If we took away capitalism and which would not allow money to build interest >> in >> accounts of the capitalist, how does one who is was a laborer retire from >> working. Would he have to rely on his excess money to live out his life. >> It >> just seems that interest on money is a tool that increases cash flow in the >> years of retirement. >> >> >> >> --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- >> > > I would think that looking at what went on in the Soviet Union could give us a > good example of what exactly Socialism would do. Marx teachings are somewhat > bastardized by the USSR but, for retirement the government steps in and takes > over the responsibility. Which in turn caused healthcare to plummet in > standards and alot of people suffered from what is still very poor healthcare > for all ages. > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- One point that is fairly overlooked when considering a universal health care system is that everyone is covered by some form of medical coverage. In the United States we have the pinnacle of health care but for all of our advancements we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of the industrialized nations. The real tragedy of not having a government sponsored health care is that many people will not have any assistance when they are sick. In other countries like England where there is a universal health care, they may have substandard waiting times for operations or the doctors may have a larger case load for less money but everyone receives equal treatment. --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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