File spoon-archives/marxism-intro.archive/marxism-intro_2004/marxism-intro.0410, message 71


Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:11:17 -0600
From: BIRD-AT-pseud.pseud
Subject: RE: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism?


I appreciate your translation of the actual number's in Kerry's proposal in to the
percentage of the GNP. Big numbers are often thrown around because they "sound"
unmanageable to the average person, but relative to the whole they are very small.  What
is often forgotten in discussions of social spending are the long term costs which are
avoided by up front spending. Preventative care is always cheaper in the long run. Many
who have no coverage end up using the emergency room (the most expensive form of care) as
their primary source of health care. Healthy children are able to go to school and learn.
This leads to a more educated population, lower crime rates, healthier workers - all
pluses. While some like to believe they can cut themselves off from the rest by living in
gated communities, the are only kidding themselves. All of us feel the effects of neglect
of the most vulnerable. 

>>> bobcat-AT-pseud.pseud 10/15/2004 12:21:45 AM >>>
Which is better; socialized medicine and guaranteed retirement (as in the UK
or Canada), or the chance for the lucky few to get the best in both areas
(as in the USA)?

My questions is this: Why can't we have our cake and eat it too?

In a country such as the US, this certainly should be possible.  We are the
richest nation in the world in GDP per capita.  Our total GDP was 10.99
TRILLION last year, giving us about $37,000 each.

To me, this is the worst symptom of a sick socioeconomic system: Kerry's
$690 billion proposal for health care (over 10 years) is dismissed as
impossible.  Yet, that is only .6% of our annual GDP.  How much in taxes or
military spending cuts would that require?  How much would the benefits be?

The unwillingness of the richest country in the world to sacrifice less than
1% for the benefit of its population is, in my mind, a sign of capitalism's
decadence.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU 
[mailto:owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of
tedbell-AT-pseud.pseud 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:48 PM
To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU 
Subject: Re: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism?

> Quoting SKITRAMP-AT-pseud.pseud: 
> 
>> 
>> Today in class we discussed how money cannot grow.  Interest that is
earned
>> on
>> money in a bank acount is money that was not distributed fairly to a
worker
>> who
>> labored for more than was paid.
>> 
>> If we took away capitalism and which would not allow money to build
interest
>> in
>> accounts of the capitalist, how does one who is was a laborer retire from
>> working.  Would he have to rely on his excess money to live out his life.
>> It
>> just seems that interest on money is a tool that increases cash flow in
the
>> years of retirement.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>      --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>> 
> 
> I would think that looking at what went on in the Soviet Union could give
us a
> good example of what exactly Socialism would do. Marx teachings are
somewhat
> bastardized by the USSR but, for retirement the government steps in and
takes
> over the responsibility. Which in turn caused healthcare to plummet in
> standards and alot of people suffered from what is still very poor
healthcare
> for all ages.
> 
> 
> 
>    --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
One point that is fairly overlooked when considering a universal health care
system is that everyone is covered by some form of medical coverage. In the
United States we have the pinnacle of health care but for all of our
advancements we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of the
industrialized nations. The real tragedy of not having a government
sponsored health care is that many people will not have any assistance when
they are sick. In other countries like England where there is a universal
health care, they may have substandard waiting times for operations or the
doctors may have a larger case load for less money but everyone receives
equal treatment. 



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