From: missingmiddletoe-AT-pseud.pseud Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:43:04 -0600 Subject: RE: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism? Regarding the retirement question, Jeepers answered: "I thought that I once heard that in Europe the people who are working now actually fund those who are presently retired. So for example, by working now, a portion of my paycheck goes to support my parents. (or someone else who is retired.) Maybe I'm way off base, but I swear that is what I thought I heard." I just wanted to add that that is exactly how the U.S. Social security program is run. It is not such a novel concept. Quoting JEEPERS-AT-pseud.pseud: > I thought that I once heard that in Europe the people who are working now > actually fund those who are presently retired. So for example, by working > now, > a portion of my paycheck goes to support my parents. (or someone else who > is > retired.) Maybe I'm way off base, but I swear that is what I thought I > heard. > > > Quoting BIRD-AT-pseud.pseud: > > > I appreciate your translation of the actual number's in Kerry's proposal > in > > to the > > percentage of the GNP. Big numbers are often thrown around because they > > "sound" > > unmanageable to the average person, but relative to the whole they are > very > > small. What > > is often forgotten in discussions of social spending are the long term > costs > > which are > > avoided by up front spending. Preventative care is always cheaper in the > long > > run. Many > > who have no coverage end up using the emergency room (the most expensive > form > > of care) as > > their primary source of health care. Healthy children are able to go to > > school and learn. > > This leads to a more educated population, lower crime rates, healthier > > workers - all > > pluses. While some like to believe they can cut themselves off from the > rest > > by living in > > gated communities, the are only kidding themselves. All of us feel the > > effects of neglect > > of the most vulnerable. > > > > >>> bobcat-AT-pseud.pseud 10/15/2004 12:21:45 AM >>> > > Which is better; socialized medicine and guaranteed retirement (as in the > UK > > or Canada), or the chance for the lucky few to get the best in both areas > > (as in the USA)? > > > > My questions is this: Why can't we have our cake and eat it too? > > > > In a country such as the US, this certainly should be possible. We are > the > > richest nation in the world in GDP per capita. Our total GDP was 10.99 > > TRILLION last year, giving us about $37,000 each. > > > > To me, this is the worst symptom of a sick socioeconomic system: Kerry's > > $690 billion proposal for health care (over 10 years) is dismissed as > > impossible. Yet, that is only .6% of our annual GDP. How much in taxes > or > > military spending cuts would that require? How much would the benefits > be? > > > > The unwillingness of the richest country in the world to sacrifice less > than > > 1% for the benefit of its population is, in my mind, a sign of > capitalism's > > decadence. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > [mailto:owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of > > tedbell-AT-pseud.pseud > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:48 PM > > To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > Subject: Re: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism? > > > > > Quoting SKITRAMP-AT-pseud.pseud: > > > > > >> > > >> Today in class we discussed how money cannot grow. Interest that is > > earned > > >> on > > >> money in a bank acount is money that was not distributed fairly to a > > worker > > >> who > > >> labored for more than was paid. > > >> > > >> If we took away capitalism and which would not allow money to build > > interest > > >> in > > >> accounts of the capitalist, how does one who is was a laborer retire > from > > >> working. Would he have to rely on his excess money to live out his > life. > > >> It > > >> just seems that interest on money is a tool that increases cash flow in > > the > > >> years of retirement. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > >> > > > > > > I would think that looking at what went on in the Soviet Union could > give > > us a > > > good example of what exactly Socialism would do. Marx teachings are > > somewhat > > > bastardized by the USSR but, for retirement the government steps in and > > takes > > > over the responsibility. Which in turn caused healthcare to plummet in > > > standards and alot of people suffered from what is still very poor > > healthcare > > > for all ages. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > One point that is fairly overlooked when considering a universal health > care > > system is that everyone is covered by some form of medical coverage. In > the > > United States we have the pinnacle of health care but for all of our > > advancements we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of the > > industrialized nations. The real tragedy of not having a government > > sponsored health care is that many people will not have any assistance > when > > they are sick. In other countries like England where there is a universal > > health care, they may have substandard waiting times for operations or the > > doctors may have a larger case load for less money but everyone receives > > equal treatment. > > > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 > > > > > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > > > > > > > > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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