File spoon-archives/marxism-intro.archive/marxism-intro_2004/marxism-intro.0410, message 79


From: missingmiddletoe-AT-pseud.pseud
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:43:04 -0600
Subject: RE: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism?


Regarding the retirement question, Jeepers answered:

"I thought that I once heard that in Europe the people who are working now
actually fund those who are presently retired.  So for example, by working now,
a portion of my paycheck goes to support my parents.  (or someone else who is
retired.)  Maybe I'm way off base, but I swear that is what I thought I heard."

I just wanted to add that that is exactly how the U.S. Social security program
is run.  It is not such a novel concept.



Quoting JEEPERS-AT-pseud.pseud:

> I thought that I once heard that in Europe the people who are working now
> actually fund those who are presently retired.  So for example, by working
> now,
> a portion of my paycheck goes to support my parents.  (or someone else who
> is
> retired.)  Maybe I'm way off base, but I swear that is what I thought I
> heard.
> 
> 
> Quoting BIRD-AT-pseud.pseud:
> 
> > I appreciate your translation of the actual number's in Kerry's proposal
> in
> > to the
> > percentage of the GNP. Big numbers are often thrown around because they
> > "sound"
> > unmanageable to the average person, but relative to the whole they are
> very
> > small.  What
> > is often forgotten in discussions of social spending are the long term
> costs
> > which are
> > avoided by up front spending. Preventative care is always cheaper in the
> long
> > run. Many
> > who have no coverage end up using the emergency room (the most expensive
> form
> > of care) as
> > their primary source of health care. Healthy children are able to go to
> > school and learn.
> > This leads to a more educated population, lower crime rates, healthier
> > workers - all
> > pluses. While some like to believe they can cut themselves off from the
> rest
> > by living in
> > gated communities, the are only kidding themselves. All of us feel the
> > effects of neglect
> > of the most vulnerable. 
> > 
> > >>> bobcat-AT-pseud.pseud 10/15/2004 12:21:45 AM >>>
> > Which is better; socialized medicine and guaranteed retirement (as in the
> UK
> > or Canada), or the chance for the lucky few to get the best in both areas
> > (as in the USA)?
> > 
> > My questions is this: Why can't we have our cake and eat it too?
> > 
> > In a country such as the US, this certainly should be possible.  We are
> the
> > richest nation in the world in GDP per capita.  Our total GDP was 10.99
> > TRILLION last year, giving us about $37,000 each.
> > 
> > To me, this is the worst symptom of a sick socioeconomic system: Kerry's
> > $690 billion proposal for health care (over 10 years) is dismissed as
> > impossible.  Yet, that is only .6% of our annual GDP.  How much in taxes
> or
> > military spending cuts would that require?  How much would the benefits
> be?
> > 
> > The unwillingness of the richest country in the world to sacrifice less
> than
> > 1% for the benefit of its population is, in my mind, a sign of
> capitalism's
> > decadence.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU 
> > [mailto:owner-marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of
> > tedbell-AT-pseud.pseud 
> > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:48 PM
> > To: marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU 
> > Subject: Re: M-INTRO: How does retirement work in socialism?
> > 
> > > Quoting SKITRAMP-AT-pseud.pseud: 
> > > 
> > >> 
> > >> Today in class we discussed how money cannot grow.  Interest that is
> > earned
> > >> on
> > >> money in a bank acount is money that was not distributed fairly to a
> > worker
> > >> who
> > >> labored for more than was paid.
> > >> 
> > >> If we took away capitalism and which would not allow money to build
> > interest
> > >> in
> > >> accounts of the capitalist, how does one who is was a laborer retire
> from
> > >> working.  Would he have to rely on his excess money to live out his
> life.
> > >> It
> > >> just seems that interest on money is a tool that increases cash flow in
> > the
> > >> years of retirement.
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >>      --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > I would think that looking at what went on in the Soviet Union could
> give
> > us a
> > > good example of what exactly Socialism would do. Marx teachings are
> > somewhat
> > > bastardized by the USSR but, for retirement the government steps in and
> > takes
> > > over the responsibility. Which in turn caused healthcare to plummet in
> > > standards and alot of people suffered from what is still very poor
> > healthcare
> > > for all ages.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >    --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > One point that is fairly overlooked when considering a universal health
> care
> > system is that everyone is covered by some form of medical coverage. In
> the
> > United States we have the pinnacle of health care but for all of our
> > advancements we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of the
> > industrialized nations. The real tragedy of not having a government
> > sponsored health care is that many people will not have any assistance
> when
> > they are sick. In other countries like England where there is a universal
> > health care, they may have substandard waiting times for operations or the
> > doctors may have a larger case load for less money but everyone receives
> > equal treatment. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
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> >      --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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> > 
> >      --- from list marxism-intro-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 





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