From: "Roland Chrisjohn, Ph. D." <rjohn-AT-treaty7.org>
Subject: Re: M-PSY: Doing empowerment
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:03:00 -0400


The message below was sent last night and returned later as too large to
deliver - - this was because I attached the WP file with Sherri's 104 page
thesis.  Anita informs me she will not have the free time she anticipated
to put the document on our web site, but I've had no problem sending it to
several list members who have requested it individually.  If anyone else
would like the thesis version of "Here Be Dragons: Psychological
Empowerment and Other Mythological Beasts," drop me a note at:

	rjohn-AT-mail1.treaty7.org

and I'll return you an electronic copy.  Let me know in what format (WP, MS
Word, Amipro) you'd prefer it.

R. Chrisjohn


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Dear All:

Hugh writes:

> Seems to me he just disagrees. His tone hasn't been especially hostile or
> dismissive either compared to a lot of the stuff you can see on the Net.

I asked him to cite information.  His reply was that "everybody" who reads
agrees with him, which is neither information or an argument, and is
unnecessarily abusive - - the imputation being that I don't read or haven't
read the definitive information he has access to.  I do, in fact read, and
as for not reading what he's read, that may be... but that's precisely what
I asked for.

Whether there are more abusive exchanges on the Internet or even on this
list is neither here nor there.  I did not invite ANY abuse, and will
simply not tolerate it.

Hugh writes:

> For myself I would be grateful for a bit of patient explanation of
> various positions so I can get to grips with them myself. That's
> why I'm going to look at Roland and Sherri's work.

I don't know about patient explanation... that sounds paternalistic to me,
and I would never presume to lecture colleagues.  I prefer an open and
honest exchange of ideas and information, and if I can be clearer in making
the sort of cases I try to make, I appreciate whatever input members of
this list (and other I subscribe to) are willing to provide me with.  I'm
not against a good joke now and then, but, again, imputing a position to me
and then ridiculing it (e.g., I believe in single-factor theory; were Mr.
Shalif interested enough to inquire into my standing on this issue, he
would be aware his imputation is an insult to me, and the fact that he's
willing to make it without such awareness makes it a damn insult) isn't a
joke, isn't argumentation, isn't discourse, and isn't informative.
>
> Roland doesn't have to address Ilan personally if he doesn't want to, but
> I'd like to see him address Ilan's positions a bit more. We've got the
> time and space -- this list is hardly Piccadilly Circus after all.

What, in his position, bears addressing?  I'm honestly asking for input
here.  I'm not a single-factor theorist, as I've said.  I'm also not a
Marxist (and I see nothing wrong with being one), not a libertarian (and I
do see something wrong with being one), nor have I ever "brainwashed"
anyone into armed confrontation (the Haudenausaunee are dedicated to
peaceful resolution of all conflicts).  As far as I can tell, this has been
the substance of his posting to me.  As for the assertion that brain
chemicals are the root of "psychopathological processes," I assume even
marginal private libraries have work by Peter Breggin and Thomas Szasz,
while more esoteric references (Ross & Pam, Ian Parker, Peter Leonard, and
similar writers) could be found if required.  If Mr. Shalif is unaware of
this literature, or has read it and can provide a refutation, or has read
it and doesn't understand it, etc., then there is a basis for an exchange
of ideas.  Ridiculing my imputed ignorance of "the literature" is not,
however.

As for making my own positions clear, this I'm happy to do because I'm
constantly trying to do it alone.  This kind of help was always what I
thought colleagues were for, and why I chose to jump in when the hint of
trouble with empowerment surfaced earlier.  In that spirit, here is another
installation.

R. Chrisjohn



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