Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 06:49:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ralph Dumain <rdumain-AT-igc.apc.org>
Subject: Re: M-TH: Tragedy and farce


At 01:55 AM 10/19/97 +0200, Hugh Rodwell wrote:
>But not a Ralph D, dear me no, he's too firmly walled 
>up in the ivory tower to be any threat.

I thought the new cutesy-poo moderators were going to flush this crap 
from thaxis, but I guess that even death and thaxis are not certain 
in life, just death.

Hugh has hung around spoons for a long time: what ivory tower do I 
dwell in, pray tell?  

If Hugh thinks he can organize anyone in Washington DC, 
I would bash open my penny jar and buy his plane ticket here, 
because we sorely need revolutionary geniuses like him in our 
desperate straights.  If I succeed in hailing a cab that would 
take us to Minnesota Avenue uncoerced, I could look up some single 
black mothers I know, you know, the working poor, who work two or three
jobs in the service industry and go to night school in their "spare" time, 
and you could explain how signing on to your carefully crafted Trotskyist
programme promises them a bright new future.  One I know would be 
especially relieved to have something to look forward to since her 
husband was shot to death last year.

Or, we could pay a visit to some of my friends in the black professional 
middle class whose fundamental conviction is that race is what makes the 
world go round and would laugh at you for suggesting that class is the 
real deal, and that there are white workers who are just as powerless as 
they are convinced they are.

One thing I notice here in the USA, outside of the thin ribbon of the 
unionized work force, is that nobody here believes in anything at all but 
their own survival in society just as it is, which is tantamount to 
believing in capitalism as a system when you come down to it.  Typically 
American is the desire to improve society without having to change 
anything.  The system is great; its accidental defects just have to 
be addressed.  I believe in the system: I just don't like being hassled 
by the cops or passed over for promotion by the old white boy network.

So I think we need Hugh desperately here and I hope others will pitch in 
too to cover his expenses in coming here to organize us all.  We need 
Hugh to take on the federally imposed diactorship, to restore democracy 
by getting rid of both the Control Board and Marion Barry's inferiocracy,
restore the Rat Control Division so I don't have to see little guests 
scurrying around my front yard, restore the funds for health care services 
to poor pregnant moms, fix up the dilapidated schools, etc.  We're 
suffering, Hugh, we need you!

Another matter about spoons administration, which is where I thought 
these discussions belonged.  We hashed out the ethics of these lists 
long ago, and this is what happened.  Originally the policy of spoons 
was somewhat vague, but ultimately it comes down to the policies of 
the moderators within each list.  When I pushed the envelope after being 
expelled from marxism-and-sciences without warning, discussion, or even 
notification by the crackpot shitbag Louis Godena, I discussed the 
issue with Malgosia, and was directed to some statement indicating that 
the moderators have final authority in the matter of list administration.

Therefore, it seems the ethical questions have nothing to do with spoons, 
except for spoons' "obligation" to provide an opportunity for all to 
participate in online discussion through having a variety of discussion lists 
to accommodate all proclivities.  I'm not sure where their "obligation" 
derives from exactly other than their own good will, but I believe we 
Marxists have strained their good will to the breaking point by being 
so difficult and obnoxious.  How come, with three separate lists devoted 
to the discussion of Marxism in general, it is not possible to divide 
up the discussants so everyone ends up where he belongs?

It seems then, that there are two choices facing discontents: to organize
either new discussion lists, or to do something about existing moderators.
The problem in getting shitheads for moderators is that nobody else comes 
forward to volunteer.  The problem in marxism-and-sciences came about 
because its founder Lisa Rogers died, leaving an inmate in charge of the 
asylum.  Clearly, the likes of Godena, who appears to be in charge of 
m-i, should actually be in involved in marxism-g, which I believe was 
designated as the toilet bowl for all interested parties to swim in no 
matter how lunatic.

Three separate lists for Marxism in general and none are functioning 
properly?  Clearly there must be some mechanism for regulating the 
moderators.  First, others should come forth and volunteer to moderate 
so there are some alternatives, which customarily there are not.  
Second, a referendum should be held, so that thugs like Godena can be 
gotten rid of.  Third, a new absolute dictator more conducive to 
a desirable list culture should be installed.  Now there's some 
democratic centralism I can relate to.  Freedom of association means 
I shouldn't have to rub shoulders with you if you turn my stomach.  
Plurality of lists rather than total openness on any given list is 
the answer, as I argued long ago.  Phooey on openness and tolerance.
Why aren't three seaparte lists enough to discuss Marxism?  Not to 
mention all the specialized lists?  And why is it that certain 
participants are so emotionally wrapped up in their feuds that they 
are still venting the same rages I got tired of months or years ago?
I think some of y'all ought to take a little vacation and cool off.

And you new thaxis-moderators, where are you, you pathetic little 
wimps?



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