Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:27:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Schwartz <jschwart-AT-freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: Re: M-TH: In the bosom of the family



This is what I was afraid of. We're off thwe issues and into personalities
and procedures. Hugh, I did not call to have anyone chucked off any list.
I said Malecki goes in my kill file and called on you to him in yours. 

Incidentally there is no question of "censorship" or a "right to speak" in
kicking someone off a list like this. No one's right to speak is being
compromised. There are no civil or criminal sanctions. There are plenry of
outlets for all kinds of speech. That's the glory of the net. Malecki
willnever lack for an audience, God bless him. And enforcing basic rules
of constructivness and civility is not censorship. No one here will
dispute the right, even in terms of participation of the list, of anyone
to advocate any damn fool position he likes,a s long as it's done in a
constructive way with reasonable politeness ansd respect for the views of
others.

I hate these discussions. I'm not participating in them any more. Can we
talk substance? 

--Justin

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Hugh Rodwell wrote:

> >Justin Schwartz wrote:
> >
> >>If we
> >>decline him the attention he evidently craves, maybe he will go amuse
> >>himself with others of his ilk on m-gen and m-int.
> >
> >First of all, M-I is doing quite well; it's not the kind of place that
> >welcomes the likes of Malecki. In fact, Malecki has been exiled from M-I.
> >Malecki has been kicked off just about every moderated list he's been on,
> >in fact, and for good reason.
> >
> >Doug
> 
> Christ, all Bob's got to do is say something blunt and the whole can of
> worms bursts open again. Also, there's been no good reason for kicking Bob
> off any list.
> 
> Doug lifting the lid on his fifth column M-I propensities is a bit too much
> in this case. M-I is not doing well. If it wasn't for Rakesh, Yoshie and a
> couple of others who provide a cover for the joint it would be the
> festering political cesspool it is at its Stalinist heart. With the odd
> shimmering glow from Mark Jones's drunken tirades. Just like the old
> Stalinist bookshop fronts -- good stuff on a couple of shelves that's hard
> to come by (like Rakesh and Yoshie) but really run by a bunch of fossilized
> counter-revolutionaries who'd love to fill the place with the collected
> works of Uncle Joe, Brezhnev, Mao, Kim Il Sung or whoever.
> 
> I wish Justin would just stick to defending himself and attacking Bob if
> that's what he wants to do instead of immediately making it a political
> issue of the right to speak -- just look at the Off with his head! reaction
> that came immediately from Doug!
> 
> Kill file, delete button, appeals for a boycott, anything you like -- but
> no bans except for cop-snitching or openly fascist propaganda.
> 
> As for the family thing, it's more social than individual. And kids today
> are in a terrible situation. In many ways they're better informed and
> better equipped to look after themselves than ever before (at least as far
> as bourgeois society is concerned), but with the prospects of work receding
> to middle age, their material possibilities of making a go of it are
> diminishing all the time, and this is accompanied by a complete chasm
> between them and social empowerment of any kind. Poor devils.
> 
> One thing about the age of consent that made me think twice when I heard
> it. Girls may become sexually mature at an early age, but their bodies are
> often not well enough developed to cope with early childbirth without
> ripping them up something rotten. I used to be  under the impression that
> the younger you are the more flexible you are, but this situation makes
> early sex education and the early learning of responsibility very important.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Hugh
> 
> 
> 
> 
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