Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:52:01 +0100
From: Hugh Rodwell <m-14970-AT-mailbox.swipnet.se>
Subject: M-TH: Lower Depths (was Radical Democracy)


Casey dribbles:

>So, of course, everyone but your version of Trotskyism is responsible for the
>Nazis.

Of course, the Social Democrats and Stalinists had *nothing* to do with it.

And anyhow, that's history, and *hard*, so Leo drops the hot potato and
slouches on...

>And, of course, because your brand of Trotskyism has never been in any
>position to influence anything in the real world,

We've already been damn close once or twice in Vietnam, Bolivia and Peru,
and were on our way in Argentina -- and that's after the second world war
in conditions of difficulty for our international movement and
Stalinist/Social Democrat hegemony of the world workers movement.  But
Trotskyism is not just postwar, it's Bolshevik-Leninism, the organized
Marxist expression of the revolutionary working class, and we were well
able to influence events in Russia and countries in that region at the end
of world war I. Casey and his ilk don't like thinking about that.

He doesn't like thinking about what it was that brought about the Stalinist
counter-revolution either. Or brought Hitler to power. Perhaps it was
because Hitler was a *bad man*, and bad men are always so successful, or
maybe it was just those omnipotent capitalists whose system was so strong
and great it was always cracking to pieces and utterly incapable of
surviving on its own strengths.

Casey would have spouted the same "lack of influence" gunk about the
Bolsheviks before 1917 -- after all 1905 was a failure and anyway it wasn't
the Bolsheviks, it was Trotsky, so it must have been unreal...

>it bears no responsibility for anything. Self-imposed complete and total
>marginality >is a marvelous state, isn't it?

Casey, our moralizing radical democrat should know all about this.

><<And he certainly hasn't made any objections to myself or Bob M being
> dragged through the dirt or arbitrarily and unjustly suspended or expelled
> from discussion lists. >>
>
>Actually, I left the lists where the lunatic Stalinists and lunatic Trots were
>engaged in a fight to the death long before you were subjected to this great
>historical wrong which measures up there with the murder of Rosa Luxemburg,

Ah yes, Stalinists and Trots, two of a kind, on the one hand and on the
other -- Casey would make the perfect history teacher. I can just see him
going on about democracy and dictatorship and how *bad men* such as Saddam
Hussein always get far too much their own way cos they're so evil and human
nature is so gullible and bad and we really need a strong wise leader to
help us stamp out all the evil... Salute the flag and Hail to the Chief!

This radical democrat (he says so himself) is sarcastic and cynical about
violations of the simplest democratic rules of discussion!! And dragging
Rosa's name through the shit into the bargain! And we all know who murdered
Rosa ...

>so I was in no position to join in the fray, even assuming I was so disposed.

I don't think anyone assumed that Casey would react for one single second.
He didn't when Proyect was trying to witch-hunt Bob M with his cop smears,
either. Mr Radical Democrat Moralist.

>suppose I am at fault where not wanting to spend my on-line time in the midst
>of a list of the paranoid.

A worm that won't ever turn (except someone else's stomach...)

Cheers,

Hugh




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