Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:05:00 +0100
From: Hugh Rodwell <m-14970-AT-mailbox.swipnet.se>
Subject: M-TH: Thick skin and thin


Bob is as gracious as ever:

>Hugh comes to the defense of Bob against Nancy and her "braindead" stuff.
>Thanks Mom:)

That's OK, son, be sure and keep your socks dry...

>In other words Nancy goes to attack and Hugh goes to my defense but both see
>workers as something hostile or alien rather then and integral part of a
>coming world party of revolution..

Crap. I was talking about Spoons, not the party, and Bob knows it.

>Hugh on the other hand thinks that one should take into consideration the
>prolo world. Thanks a lot Hugh! But this also stinks of the petty bourgeois
>intelligencia adjusting the world to fit just another pattern.

This kind of reminder that the working class exists is necessary on the
Spoons lists, and again this is something Bob knows. I wasn't speaking out
for Bob from Bob's point of view -- he can do that only too well himself --
but in relation to the Spoons setup. If Bob wants to identify me with the
Spoons consensus then that's his business, but next thing he knows
someone'll be saying the same thing about him just for being here.


>The point being that prolos do not have to adjust

Of course they have to adjust, Bob says so himself in his very next line.
The question is what needs adjusting and how it's done.

>nor are they stupid.

Exactly.

>The problem is that because of the way bourgeois society is built up the mass
>can never go beyond what we would call trade union conciousness.

So this needs adjusting, for as many as possible.

>It will
>only be the vanguard of the workers who rise above this conciousness and
>link with the intelligencia into creating a communist vanguard with a
>program to show the way out.. Just as the petty bougeois intelligencia are
>petty bourgeois because of their position in society..and it will only br
>the petty bourgeois that rise above their envionment that will become
>Communist Revolutionaries..But without us to translate the program and
>ideology into action well you are in deep shit without a paddle!

True. Who said otherwise?

>Thus we will not have workers or petty bourgeois intellectuals in the party
>but and organization of professional revolutionaries..

Which is a pretty big adjustment from everyday prole life.

>Anyhow, the point being that still I feel a big sign has been hung up at
>Jefferson Villlage "Only prolos with incredible hard skins dare open their
>mouths here"...

Not just proles. Anyone. But we see some amazingly tender toes on some of
our rhinos at times. It's not just the hardness of the skin, but the
sharpness of the knife that counts, too.


>Connected to all of the organizational manuvers that have been taken here at
>Jefferson Village Nancy's "brain dead" stuff is far easier to take because
>she comes from the liberal feminist school.

This is very true. Nancy is approachable and easy to communicate with.
That's one reason I bothered pointing out what she was doing by dragging in
brain damage as an argument.

>Much harder is the Stalinist and neo Stalinist manipulation on the lists
>which still is allowed to spread its posion and gag the
>discussion..Especially worth noting is that the spoon intelligencia blocks
>with the Stalinists on this stuff and especially after the demise of the
>Soviet Union which they are responsible for its business as usuall with
>their rotten popular front politics adapted to the new situation..And
>completely hypocritical also! An intellectual Stalinist can call somebody a
>"cocksucker" or "cunt" or accuse some body of being and "Agent" and be made
>moderator whereas a worker can say "ballbusting feminist" and immediately be
>expelled. No logic just anti-worker hysteria connected to Stalinist
>organizational purges and unfortunately the spoons who are a group of highly
>intelligent people allow this kind of stuff to become the norm..

What's intelligence got to do with it??

>Naturally Bob and Bill are and exception to the rule. And I think this list
>gains by having a wide assortment of opinions and positions that sometimes
>clash and clash sharpely. "Brain death" in reality is trying to gag
>discussions and feelings and a bit of name calling never hurts unless it
>comes >entirely out of any political context. I do not think that Nancy in
>this case >oversteps the line because she quite clearly tried to link my
>"brain deadness" to politics..

It never even crossed my mind to link my criticism of Nancy's words to list
rules!

By the way, I always put on my leg armour if I venture to defend Bob, so
the fangs don't sink in that deep...

Cheers,

Hugh




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