Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:34:23 -0500 (EST)
From: malgosia askanas <ma-AT-panix.com>
Subject: Re:  M-TH: Re: Sex.lib & male supremacy


Dear C.B.,

"A rebours" means in reverse, in negative.

Here's what I mean.  You say:

> Maybe I'm overstating it. How about just don't hate women in general. 
> Is that clear exactly what I am proposing they shouldn't hate ?

> Then take it another step, respect what you used to hate, male 
> chauvinist ? Then you will be a man , not a pig (just kidding).

(I hear you when you say "just kidding", so take what I say with a grain 
of salt.)

So let's say someone hates women in general.  Crudely speaking, this means
they stereotype women as having certain hateful qualities.  _Crudely_ speaking.

The steps you're proposing is that first they should stop hating these
qualities, and then they should start respecting what they used to hate.  
In other words, the stereotyping does not go away, only the attitude changes 
from "hate" to "respect".

Now let's imagine that I do not like the stereotype which the hater has imposed
on me.  As long as I am being hated for it, it is at least legitimate that 
I rebel against it.  But now, instead, I begin to be "respected" for the same
(supposed) qualities.  _Now_ if I object to the imputation of these qualities
I can be told "What is your problem?  I _respect_ you for these qualities.
Surely you can have no objection to _that_."

Again, this is ridiculously crude, but maybe it will help you see (part of)
my point.

Do you really think that "women as a group" have some definable qualities?

> What do you say should be men's attitude about women in general ? 
This is an incredibly difficult question.  It is identical to the question
"What should be the attitude of people towards each other?" Shall I say:
it should be like the attitude of two master weavers who have come together
from two different corners of the world to weave a carpet together?
Or: like the attitude of two climbers attached by a single rope?  Or: like
the attitude of two evenly matched wrestlers, locked in an embrace?  

Nah.

> I know that technology now projects the possibility of a > test-tube pregnancy norm, but I am not ready to throw out, what is it, the > 2 billion year old  method of sexual reproduction for a synthetic method > developed in the last ten years by humans. So I am conservative about > keeping sexual reproduction for a while. So we need to get rid of the male > chauvinism that represses sex. 

Surely this cannot be your motivation.  Humans have reproduced successfully
for centuries in spite of male chauvinism, and here we are to testify to it.
I see no reason we couldn't continue this success without any effort to
eradicate male chauvinism.


-m


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