Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:04:36 -0500 From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki) Subject: Re: M-TH: Re: Sex.lib & male supremacy Charlie in reply to M.. > malgosia, > > Is your position have no presumption about any group, judge them all individually ? > As to what exactly we should respect, the problem arises in the preexisting condition of male supremacy and misogyny. Do you have problem with the notion that those suffering from misogyny don't just hate or whatever women one at a time ? It's not that they prefer squirrels to women. Actually , some of them prefer men to women; they are male supremacists. > Maybe I'm overstating it. How about just don't hate women in general. Is that clear exactly what I am proposing they shouldn't hate ? > > Then take it another step, respect what you used to hate, male chauvinist ? Then you will be a man , not a pig (just kidding). > One reason for stating it affirmatively and emphatically (love, respect) is affirmative action: to more forcefully wipe out the preexisting condition which is hating or disliking women as a group. > As to the words "respect and love" women I'm not sure what a rebours is . In a contorted way ? I've been thinking this way for a while and I have not come across a contorted logical path in it to just another man trickbag or patenalism. But I'm not saying that is conclusive. I sincerely, empirically and rigorously examine it. This discussion and critique furthers that. > > I think you are saying it is veiled and slick paternalism, and that makes you want to kill. Hey, o.k., , I don't like women as a group (I do NOT DISlike them as a group, either). I even like you as an individual a little, and I have never sensed your physical being . > > I know damn well that many or most women have a resentment against being oppressed by male chauvinism. Who else can that resentment be taken out on but individual men but because they are part of men in general ? There is no PATRIARCH individual for them to hate. > So, my solution is I presume for women in general, of course, reserving the right to rebut in individual cases. And I fight for all men to reverse the current generally dominating attitude which is male supremacy This attitude is in individual men. I fight that they reverse their current presumption against to a presumption for women. > Hey,do you see the self-interest ? No trick. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander, one of which I am. For women to give up their JUSTIFIABLE resentment against men in general for misogyny in general, men have to make a big move, an apology, a surrender in the battle of the sexes. Something. Clearly, men have to make the first move of reversing male supremacy. > > What do you say should be men's attitude about women in general ? Case by case basis ? > > Although, I have studied semiotics, structuralism and postmodernism, I am not fully with absolute social constructionism of reality. My approach is species-being, which is a "dialectical" unity of culture (symbols,systems of representation, social construction) and nature (instinct and natural needs). Culture does not utterly obliterate our instincts. It sublates , preserves and overcomes them. With respect to relationships between men and women both culture or social construction and sublated biology or instinct play a role. Also, unlike animals we are conscious of evolution, survival of the species. My species-being ethic is that we rationally plan survival of our species indefinitely. Respectful, passionate, loving relations between the sexes follows from this species-being ethic. I know that technology now projects the possibility of a test-tube pregnancy norm, but I am not ready to throw out, what is it, the 2 billion year old method of sexual reproduction for a synthetic method developed in the last ten years by humans. So I am conservative about keeping sexual reproduction for a while. So we need to get rid of the male chauvinism that represses sex. ( I am not saying all sex is or should be for reproduction !) Charlie! Is this and ideological smokescreen to cover up the fact that both men and women can really be assholes? Warm regards Bob Malecki --- from list marxism-thaxis-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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