From: Hans Despain <DESPAIN-AT-econ.sbs.utah.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:12:35 GMT-700 Subject: dialectic object-subject Maybe this distinction that Chodos is emphasizing in the Bhaskarian dialectic, between epistemological and ontological, becomes quite important in the context of what Dumain and Laari are discussing. I too, like Dumain, am very suspect of dialectics of nature as they have been presented in both Hegel and Engles. However, I do believe that it is quite important that we recognize "objective standards" do seem to exist, i.e., there is a real world that would continue to exist, without the existence of human beings. To Laari's point (d) [feb. 23] "Isn't that contradiction of subjective versus objective, or of idealist versus materialist, one of the very questions that define dialectics?" I'm not sure what is meant by this defines dialectics, but this is certainly an important distinction between the idealist, Hegel, and the materialist, Marx. For Hegel the contradiction is only cognitive, for Marx real (see especially *Philosophical and Economic Manuscripts* number three). And this once again takes us back to the 'principle of identity,' which is not only the subject-object, but thought-being, infinite-finite, identity-difference, etc. These are what beckon for a dialectic method, and perhaps *is* the ontological dialectic. Also, Laari in pervious post ribbed me, to not take the word "metaphysical" to serious in context of Hegel. This may be wise advise, but the importance of the "non-metaphysical" interpretation (K. Hartman, T. Pinkard, and T. Smith) is its implications for Marx(ism). I personally believe that Feuerbach is a precruser of this interpretation, more, perhaps, then he has been given credit. I simple believe that the "non-metaphysical" project of Hegel is what splits the Hegelians into two distinct camps, i.e., "old" and "young" (or "right" and "left" may be better terms). Hans Despain University of Utah despain-AT-econ.sbs.utah.edu --- from list marxism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- ------------------
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