File spoon-archives/marxism.archive/marxism_1995/95-02-28.000, message 255


From: Hans Despain <DESPAIN-AT-econ.sbs.utah.edu>
Date:          Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:12:35 GMT-700
Subject:       dialectic object-subject


Maybe this distinction that Chodos is emphasizing in the Bhaskarian 
dialectic, between epistemological and ontological, becomes quite 
important in the context of what Dumain and Laari are discussing.  I 
too, like Dumain, am very suspect of dialectics of nature as they have 
been presented in both Hegel and Engles.  However, I do believe that 
it is quite important that we recognize "objective standards" do seem 
to exist, i.e., there is a real world that would continue to exist, 
without the existence of human beings.

To Laari's point (d) [feb. 23] "Isn't that contradiction of subjective 
versus objective, or of idealist versus materialist, one of the very 
questions that define dialectics?"  

I'm not sure what is meant by this defines dialectics, but this is
certainly an important distinction between the idealist, Hegel, and 
the materialist, Marx.  For Hegel the contradiction is only 
cognitive, for Marx real (see especially *Philosophical and Economic 
Manuscripts* number three).  And this once again takes us back to the 
'principle of identity,' which is not only the subject-object, but 
thought-being, infinite-finite, identity-difference, etc.  These are 
what beckon for a dialectic method, and perhaps *is* the ontological 
dialectic.  

Also, Laari in pervious post ribbed me, to not take the word 
"metaphysical" to serious in context of Hegel.  This may be wise 
advise, but the importance of the "non-metaphysical" interpretation 
(K. Hartman, T. Pinkard, and T. Smith) is its implications for 
Marx(ism).  I personally believe that Feuerbach is a precruser of this 
interpretation, more, perhaps, then he has been given credit.  I 
simple believe that the "non-metaphysical" project of Hegel is what 
splits the Hegelians into two distinct camps, i.e., "old" and 
"young" (or "right" and "left" may be better terms).  

Hans Despain
University of Utah
despain-AT-econ.sbs.utah.edu 






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