Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:30:10 -0600 From: Hans Ehrbar <ehrbar-AT-keynes> Subject: Re: H*lp: Roy Bhaskars Critical Realism (fwd) Here is the first sentence in Marx's famous passage in the preface in German: In der gesellschaftlichen Produktion ihres Lebens gehen die Menschen bestimmte, notwendige, von ihrem Willen unabhaengige Verhaeltnisse ein, Produktionsverhaeltnisse, die einer bestimmten Entwicklungsstufe ihrer materiellen Produktivkraefte entsprechen. I proposed to translate it as follows: In the social production of their lives, people enter into determinate relations that are necessary and independent of their wills---relations of production, which correspond to a determinate stage of development of their material productive forces. Why did I use "determinate" as translation for "bestimmt" instead of the usual "definite"? I think Chris suggested already one very good argument in favor of it: because in German it is the same word as in the later sentence: Es ist nicht das Bewusstsein der Menschen, das ihr Sein, sondern umgekehrt ihr gesellschaftliches Sein, das ihr Bewusstsein bestimmt. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, it is their social being that determines their consciousness. But let us go back to the first sentence. Here it is again: In the social production of their lives, people enter into determinate relations that are necessary and independent of their wills---relations of production, which correspond to a determinate stage of development of their material productive forces. My hypothesis here is: Marx uses "determinate relations" because these relations are not historical or accidental results but they are in a certain sense lawful---yet in the same sentence he rules out the first candidate for the source of this lawfulness, namely, he rules out that they are determined by people's wills, and introduces the productive forces as something to which they correspond---which is not the same as something by which they are determined, but which suggests some lawful relationship there. Marx uses the word "bestimmt" a lot, and I always thought that "definite" was a lousy translation. But, to be honest, this is the first time that it occurred to me that Marx might have meant that it is subject to some law as opposed to being an accidental or constellational product. I still have to check if this interpretation holds up for other occurences of the word "bestimmt" in Marx. BTW, Chris, I feel honored by your careful reading of my submission. -- Hans G. Ehrbar ehrbar-AT-econ.utah.edu Economics Department, 308 BuC (801) 581 7797 University of Utah (801) 581 7481 Salt Lake City UT 84112-1107 (801) 585 5649 (FAX) For Info about our Graduate Program Contact program-AT-econ.sbs.utah.edu --- from list marxism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- ------------------
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