Date: Sun, 25 Jun 95 09:00:10 BST From: Chris Burford <cburford-AT-gn.apc.org> Subject: Lumpen intelligentsia? I realise I probably present myself to someone like Jim as a delicate soul and maybe I don't have quite the same sense of humour (I did enjoy his reference to the elephant however) but I find the following exchange from Friday very disturbing. >>>> > What I'd like to get from them, and > sometimes do from Louis, is interesting substantive discussion. Don't worry; I'll have your back against the wall yet (or maybe I'll just have you put against the wall, hnyuck, nyuck... :) <<< Maybe it comes particularly close to home because I consciously kept Justin under pressure over a period of several weeks to clarify in what sense he was referring to Sraffa as having disproved the law of value. I feel I learned from that exchange and my sense was that I could respect Justin's position more as he clarified it further on. Overall it felt to me like an exchange which perhaps got technical and boring for many members of the list but in which there was some mutual respect and from my point of view it failed to confirm the existence of serious criticism of the law of value. At moments I felt the temptation to try to "pin him down" in a coercive way, but never to pin him to a wall. What on earth does "hnyuck, nyuck" mean? The whole image sounds most unappealing and really an allusion to a sort of male rape, certainly when you consider that it is a physical and psychological violation of the person of an extreme and dramatic form. After all most rapes by men of women are motivated more by themes of violence and power than by sexual gratification. But in this vernacular the image is that the male victim's back is against the wall so of course it is not sexual, and does not compromise the aggressor's image of his own masculinity. I don't think that makes it OK at all. The act may not be erotic. It is highly physical and violent. Justin may well have a thick skin and can look after himself but other valuable contributors to this list may not. Even if I am annoyed by how I experience Justin at times as a self-appointed member of the logic police, I find the prospect of watching an e-mail male rape unartistic. If the two of you have to act this out, I would appreciate it if you could do it off stage. Bluntly Jim, although I want a development and application of marxist ideas as much as you, I myself feel violated by how you appear to have burst into this room, said "Hi here I am!" and "I enjoy putting anyone I consider is not a marxist up against a wall and working them over". Did you spend even a few days let alone a week to watch and read the house style that has developed on this list before jumping in? because you seem to have imported some habits from some other e-mail culture that seem alien and destuctive, rather than creative. I don't blame you for being unemployed, but how long have you been unemployed, and how are you occupying your time? because frankly in Marxist terms I think you are displaying some lumpen characteristics. If there is a lumpen proletariat, perhaps nowadays there is such a thing as a lumpen intelligentsia. Is your social being determining your consciousness, Jim? I am sure you will concede that is a very Marxist question. Chris Burford, London. --- from list marxism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- ------------------
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