Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 13:25:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Chegitz Guevara <mluziett-AT-shrike.depaul.edu>
Subject: Re: 100 Years of (Mis)Understanding


On Sun, 26 Nov 1995 ROSSERJB-AT-vax1.acs.jmu.edu wrote:

> To Jim J.
>      And would Finland have been better off if that
> revolution had succeeded?   The evidence strongly
> suggests not. 

Where did this guy come from!? (Don't say PEN-L or I'll bite you) The 
Failure of the revolution in Finland undoubtedly played a role in the 
isolation and subsequent degeneration of the Russian Revolution. The 
Finnish bourgeoisie, backed by 20,000 German troops, overthrew the 
revolution in blood and fire. Over 100,000 Finnish workers were killed, 
either in battle or executed after defeat. 70,000 were thrown into 
concentration camps. The reactionary Finnish government that came 
afterwards was akin to dictatorship, and the rights of the workers were 
in no way respected. It was only done away with at the end of WWII 
because of its alliance with Nazi Germany.

 Finland is well off, but not quite as
> well off as its neighbor, Sweden, whose relationship
> with the former USSR was hardly as close as that of
> Finland's.  Both of their systems are, of course, currently 
> under attack by hard line world capitalism.

Both systems are capitalist systems, and rely on a high level of 
exploitation of their working class for the social service that they 
formerly had, although Otto is better suited to discuss this.
 
>      I'll save the next round of my naughty anti-Leninism
> for a response to somebody else.  But let me note that
> such social democracies need strong worker movements to 
> support them.  And workers are much better off in either of
> those states than any Leninist state, former or otherwise.

Workers are better off in the United States than in any of the "Leninist" 
states, I guess that makes this a model of workers' socialist democracy.

> Finland got out in 1917 and has never regretted it.

Except, during the Winter War when the Soviets attacked. Finns rose up to 
seize the property of their bosses and landlords everywhere Soviet troops 
occupied.

> Barkley Rosser   

I'm am very strongly resisting the urge to Ralph on you.

Marc, "the Chegitz," Luzietti
http://shrike.depaul.edu/~mluziett

I'm not anti-society, society's anti-me
I'm not anti-religion, religion's anti-me
I'm not anti-tradition, tradition's anti-me
I'm not anti-anything, I just want to be free.

Mike Muir of Suicidal Tendencies



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