Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:57:54 -0500
From: Brian Carnell <briand-AT-carnell.com>
Subject: Re: The collapse of capitalism? -Reply


At 12:55 PM 2/13/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Why bother to talk to someone who doesn't seem to know [or care] that
>over the last two decades in US the rich have got richer and the poor
>got poorer?  That's by the US gov.'s own figures.  

You trust the figures of the capitalist state??  I'm shocked.

Measured by income I have no doubt that this is true.  But of course you're 
being rather provincial in considering only the US -- what about the 
worldwide proletariat??

The rich got richer.  The poor had a higher standard of living than at any 
time in history, and you and others on this list want to throw out this 
system for one that dispenses with the huge gains in human living standards 
afforded to us by market capitalism.

>This will be my only attempt to explain anything to Carnell.  Then,
>delete on sight, I say.

Wow!!!  Don't you want to wait and have this examined by the central 
committee first?  Clearly if people cannot be trusted to work within a 
price-oriented exchange system, surely they cannot be trusted to decide who 
to read and who to ignore!!!

Thank God I'm not in PERU!!!!

>Don't look for some 'measure of the standard of living' to cling to
>for some shred of indication that, gee, the workers don't have it so
>bad.  Maybe the last recession combined with an election campaign
>finally triggered a drop in interest rates, so that some of us that
>were paying very high rents could finally afford to buy a house. 
>Don't expect us to be grateful and sing the praises of capitalism on
>that account.
>
>Notice that real wages are indeed dropping at the same time as the
>owners are getting richer than ever.  Now consider that those two
>things are integrally related, i.e. what we are seeing is a
>redistribution of wealth, from workers toward owners.
>
>Duh.

And the real standard of living is increasing.  Duh.  Income has stagnated 
along with inflation.  The reason you were paying very high rents (and I 
continue to pay very high rents) is likely because of government 
intervention in the market place.  Ever try to rent an apartment in New York 
City??  There's your socialist future for you.

Where I live (Kalamazoo, Mich.), one cannot build low cost housing for the 
poor, because there are a zillion and a half zoning boards which require 
that only certain residential structures be built in certain areas.  The 
government around here loves to protect the rich and privileged...sort of 
reminds me of socialist/communist states.

If you feel like it, put me in your kill file.  Advertising your intent 
merely wastes bandwidth.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Carnell
briand-AT-carnell.com



     --- from list marxism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

     ------------------