Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:25:17 -0800
From: iwp.ilo-AT-ix.netcom.com (CEP )
Subject: Re: socialism in one country


You(Scott) wrote: 
>
>Uncle Lou (P),
>>
>1) Doesn't this debate really go back to Lenin's position on the Brest
>treaty where he took on Trotsky and others on making the peace and 
saving
>the fledgling socialism in Russia. And didn't he roundly reject 
trotsky's
>position of continuing to press Germany in the name of permanent 
revolution
>and the 'expected' uprising of the German workers?
>
    Carlos:
    What is your source on this,Scott?  Trotsky never proposed to
    "continuing to press Germany".  Rather he supported the possition
    of "Neither peace nor war".  Lenin disagreed.  Then Lenin nominated
    Trotsky for the Brest's negotiations and the rest is history. I
    believe Lenin was right on this one, but is completely unrelated
    with the "Theory of Socialism in one Country" which is a complete
    responsability of Stalin. Lenin had the *opposite* position to
    that of Stalin.  Did you read the book on resolutions and minutes
    of the Third Four Congresess of the Third InternationaL?

    Scott:

>2) What should Russia's position have been? Or more to the point what 
is the
>opposite of 'socialism in one country' when that's all you have so 
far?
>Should those in the one country simply hand it back over to the 
capitalists
>and in effect say, 'sorry, the world proletariat isn't ready yet so 
we'll
>give it up until a better time?'

    Scott:
    You first recognize you never read Trotsky and then try to          
    caricaturize Trotsky's position on Stalin's theory of "Socialism
    in one country".  Not to make to obstruse for you I will            
    encapsulate the concept for you:

    "Socialism in one country is a reactionary, isolationist policy
    of the Soviet bureaucracy that basically sustain that a socialist
    system can emerge in a capitalist-dominated world.  The             
    dictatorship of the proletariat is only, and I stress *only*
    a transitional form of regime in a trasitional society towards
    socialism.  Socialism is not possible until a significant number
    of advanced countries achieve a revolutionary process through which
    capitalism is overthrown.  This *have nothing to do* with a         
    so-called critcism of the Stalinists that we, revolutionary         
    marxists, are not for the defense of revolutions or transitional
    regimes in their confrontation with imperialism and capitalism.
    It has to do with the reactionary illussion of bureaucrats that,
    having failed and miserably retreating from internationalism and
    international revolution, now asserts that that doesn't             
    matter,since socialism and communism can be built and lived in
    in complete isolation from world reality.
    On the other hand, Socialism in one country specify that            
    international revolution have to be supeditated to the interests
    of the Soviet Union -- rather, of its bureaucracy and not the
    other way around as Lenin has established"

    Scott:

 I'm not trying to be funny, I really don't
>see the point. It seems to me that it is highly unlikely that 
revolution
>will simultaneously happen in every, or even most, countries at one 
time.
>
    Carlos:

    There you go again, Scott.  You are just confusing revolution
    with socialism.  While the first is necessary for the second,
    the second needs the first to be international to become.

    Moreover, Scott:
    Neither Trotsky, nor any trotskyist to my knowledge has ever
    wrote or defended the idea that "revolution will simultaneously
    happen in every, or even ,most, countries at one time".

    Got it?.  BTW, you're being funny.

    Recommendation: Read Trotsky.  Your complaint that is               
    complicated... sounds like Charlotte.  Is that your only
    excuse?.  Read this: "Trotsky, with his writting talents has made
    history and theory accesible to young readers and workers.  There
    are very few revolutionaries who write with such clarity".  Want
    to guess who wrote that one, Scott?

    Carlos



>That'll do for starters.
>
>Scott
>
>
>
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>



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