Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:04:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Schwartz <jschwart-AT-freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Libertarians are right!



Well, in mareket socialism the sole employer is not the state. The state
is the employer of last resort. 

Socialism will limit people's choices. It will prohibit capitalist acts
between consenting adults. This is a restriction that needs justification.
But lots of laws limit people' schoices. Under American acpitalism you may
not sell yoirself as a slave. You cannot sellk your body parts. Various
other transactions are prohibited. The question is wwhether wage labor
should be one of these prohibited treansactions.

Boiled down to bare essentials, I think socilaist objections to wage
labor, and justifications for prohibiting it, are three:

1) It leads to immense inequalities which cannot be justified by any
acceptable principle of justice.

2) It limits worker's freedom by requiring them to submit to dictatorial
conditions at work (or starve).

3) It undermines political freedom by leaving capitalists will effective
control over the government.

As we say in law, these reasons of public policy support the abolition of
wage labor.

--Justin

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Brian Carnell wrote:

> At 10:01 PM 2/14/96 -0800, Brad wrote:
> >Now for a brief interlude of fun...
> >
> >Brian C. sez:
> >
> >>Are you serious??  I can choose whatever economic relationship I choose to
> >>engage in...I don't have my choices artifically limited (except to the
> >>extent the current government does so).  "Market" socialism would
> >>artifically limit those choices.
> >
> >You know, now that I think about it, the libertarians are right: workers 
> >CAN choose whatever economic relationship they want, when the choose to 
> >abolish capitalism...
> 
> Actually I don't have to wait to abolish capitalism to choose my economic
> relationships.  For example, if I wanted to be a socialist, I would simply
> refuse to engage in trade with capitalists.  I have friends who live on a
> commune and adopt your beliefs very radically.  I personally would not want
> to do so, but they seem quite content and amazingly enough capitalism
> tolerates their choice.
> 
> Of course when socialists have their way, rather than being at the mercy of
> a wide range of capitalists, individuals will be at the mercy of the state.
> What was it Trotsky said?? Oh yeah,
> 
> "In a country where the sole employer is the State opposition means death by
> slow starvation.  The old principle, who does not work shall not eat, has
> been replaced by a new one:  who does not obey shall not eat."
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Carnell
> briand-AT-carnell.com
> 
> 
> 
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