From: Godenas-AT-aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 20:41:20 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Louis Godena on Tony Cliff


Chris, this post was originally a reply to "Jorn" from Denmark who, I felt
made some statements about the Korean War that far exceeded the limits of
asininity, even for this list.  He specifically dismissed my formulation of
the "four stages" of Trotskyism (putschism, opportunism, defeatism, reaction)
that I have observed among most of the Trotskyite sects in our own time
without offering a single fact in rebuttal (other than the familiar tactics
of the Stalinphobe).     That the British SWP is merely among the worst of a
bad lot goes without saying; my point was simply to present a brief resume of
Mr Cliff, whom "Jorn" specifically mentioned.   All of the tendencies appear
in practically all of the Trotskyite parties, with the possible exception of
the Sparticist League, which I will discuss in a later post.  People like
Jorn are on the left, but are dedicated anti-communists.  I, too, am on the
left, however, I am an equally  dedicated anti-anti-communist.   Peope like
T. Cliff, while hardly of earth-shaking importance to the rotating of the
earth, nevertheless represent a trend that I feel is destructive to the goals
that I feel most on the left share, regardless of sectarian differences.  For
that reason, I believe an ongoing critique of the ideas and political
formations of the left is necessary.  
                                                 Louis Godena 
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	100423.2040-AT-compuserve.com (Chris, London)
Sender:	owner-marxism-AT-jefferson.village.virginia.edu
Reply-to:	marxism-AT-jefferson.village.virginia.edu
To:	marxism-AT-jefferson.village.virginia.edu (marxismlist a)
Date: 96-02-17 19:56:53 EST

While I have been impressed with your spirited anti-imperialist
defence of the PCP, which has certainly made me look at their
ideas more closely....

I would ask you to moderate yourself in the tone of what sounds
to me like an attack on Tony Cliff. In terms of political practice
I have long personally had reservations about the UK SWP
but I have found Adam's contributions thoughtful and 
usually constructive.

I really don't want to listen to a long exchange with Adam saying
how great Tony Cliff is and you saying how hopeless he is.


This l*st is a very strange place, a forum populated by people
from all different tendencies. If it is a war of each against
all, we will get nowhere. We have to have an assumption that
while our favoured point of view was mainly right, it is possible
that none of us, and none of our heroes, (and heroines?) was 
completely right.

Or to put it another way, everyone was at least partly wrong.

But then I have finally succumbed today and bought two books
by Trotsky and two books by Trotskyists.  

Take care,

Chris
London.


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