From: Bruce Cronin <b.cronin-AT-auckland.ac.nz>
To: "'marxism-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU'"
Subject: RE: marxism-digest V2 #800
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:11:07 +-1200



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>There is nothing definite but my reading is that our servers would have 
>little interest in supporting a rump l'st dominated by sectarian exchanges
>from a small band of people, associated with one party or one tendency.
>
This is pathetic.

This list has been dominated for the last couple of years by a small band of
people, associated with one tendency - liberals.

Day after day we read, frankly, liberal twaddle from the likes of Proyect, Carlos
and bodvista. And these three in particular can be incredibly sectarian. However we put up with it, because there is the odd gem amongst the verbage.

Now there's another faction on the list, but this one's got a bit more
intellectual firepower and stamina. Worse its associated with the "terrible
fanatical Shining Path", which liberals in particular seem very authoritative about.

The reaction - "stamp it out". This is a classic bureaucratic reaction by a
clique, and it does give support to the concept "scratch a liberal and uncover
a fascist":

>Most urgently I think we need a breathing space, one option is
the suspension of Adolfo and New Flag, pending consultations
within a week.

and...
>In the case of Adolfo, for his own sake (!!!) he needs a cooling off period
>to work out what he is doing. Exceptionally his return could be subject to
>an appeal forwarded through spoons admin for a temperature taking on the l'st.
>Any appeal would have to convince enough of his realistic intentions. A
condition of any return might be a limit of one post a day.

and...
>If possible administrative measures to maintain a democratic
>environment on this l'st should be selectively aimed at only a very few 
>people, ideally only two. But firmness might be necessary to make clear 
>that others would need to respect the democratic rights of all l'st >members. Calmness and firmness would be necessary to reduce the
>likelihood of a snowball chorus of complaints
And you people complain about "Stalinism"?

>the consensus seems to be overwhelming that they are perceived
jointly as the leading protagonists of the sectarian assault.
How was this "consensus" measured?

>If expulsion was not confirmed, I think it could be argued
>that as a publication, the more appropriate rule would be that New Flag 
would be limited to a certain number of articles per week with a maximum
 of one per day.
Have we been getting more than one article a day?

>A limit on number of posts please note could be decisive in the
>balance of power between this small faction and the over 300 other
>users of the l'st.
Better be careful about this sort of thing or it could undermine Proyect,
Carlos, and Chris' hegemony on the list.

The concern to maintain the hegemony of the liberal faction is underlined
by the fact that the list itself isn't in crisis - only that some "landmark figures", ie members of the liberal faction, have pulled out because of the flaming:

>Although the number of subs combined is still as high as 332 this am,
>landmark figures of the l'st have left, and this creates the reality of 
>a snowball effect.

And what is the cause of the flaming? The liberals say its a Maoist conspiracy. But it appears to me that the heat has come from the
propensity of some of  the "landmark figures" to make very ill-informed comments about a major revolutionary struggle and the revolutionary
movement in general in the presence of comrades deeply involved in
a civil war.

GET REAL - there is a very bitter civil war going on in Peru.
Thousands of people are being killed, dispossesed, arrested, and tortured.
Many of the closest comrades and family members of the participants in this
debate, are in jail, being tortured, or facing bullets RIGHT NOW as we speak.

This is revolution in reality. And it is why ill-informed comments from comfortable liberals in the imperialist countries (no matter how well
intentioned) provoke a strong reaction.

There is no conspiracy. I feel honoured that this list has developed to a point
that we can engage in discussions with comrades from a major revolutionary
movement, and not just the academics or cardres from the Western grouplets.

I would suggest that the white western liberals pull their heads in a bit
learn a bit of modesty and reflect that maybe the world's fate won't
be decided in the imperialist countries any more.

Bruce

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