Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 11:23:44 GMT
From: Adam Rose <adam-AT-pmel.com>
Subject: Re: State Capitalism and Cuba



Kevin writes:
> On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Louis N Proyect wrote:
> 
> > > I sense, Louis, that this is a dodge of the question. Please explain what
> > > socialist property relations existed in Cuba... that is: did workers have
> > > *control* of the means of production? I argue that there is a fundamental
> > > difference between *nationalized* property relations and *socialist*
> > > property relations.
> 
> > Louis: Workers "controlling" the means of production? If according to
> > your party line, they had control in the USSR up until 1928, then by the
> > same criteria they have had control in Cuba since 1960. Are you happy now?
> 						         	
> 	You're still dodging the question with your normal irritating
> personal attacks. I'm interested in your answer. Do you see a
> difference between nationalized and socialized (or socialist) forms of
> production. Within nationalized forms of production could you draw a
> distinct line between what is state capitalist, and what is a degenerate
> worker's state. Are any of these categories sufficient to describe some of
> the countries we have been talking about (ex. PRC, Vietnam, Cuba)? 
> 
> Kevin
> Cols, Oh
> 

Louis,
Kevin is right.

This IS the nub of the question, and you have never put forward an answer.
I think this is because you don't have one that you are happy with . . . 
well, fair enough.

I think part of the venom ending up coming in our direction started off being
projected at your problem : given that Cuba IS socialist, how do we
distinguish it, in Marxist terms, from other regimes which you DON'T like ?
Before you start rattling your tail and baring your fangs, keep in mind that
marxists with bigger brains than you or I have been defeated by this one 
. . . 

Adam.



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